JANUARY 5, 2008 PUBLIC HEARING ON THE ADOPTION OF LAND USE REGULATIONS FOR WIND ENERGY FACILITIES Public Hearing beginning at 1:10 PM at the Town of Lyme Fire Hall, 12175 NYS Route 12E, Chaumont, New York. Court Reporter was Sally B. Maiorano, Registered Merit Reporter, Certified Realtime Reporter, Certified CART Provider, Certified Shorthand Reporter, and Notary Public in and for the State of New York. PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 2 1 MR. AUBERTINE: Call this hearing to order. 2 Can everybody hear me? 3 I'll ask our town attorney, Mr. Mark Gebo, to 4 give notice of hearing and the proof of publication and 5 posting. 6 MR. GEBO: Okay. The notice for the hearing 7 is as follows: Please take notice the Town Board of the 8 Town of Lyme shall conduct public hearings on the 9 adoption of land use regulations for wind energy 10 facilities on the following dates, times, and places: 11 Saturday, January 5th and Saturday, January 12th at 12 1:00 PM at the Fire Hall in Chaumont located at 13 11385 New York State 12E, Chaumont. The purpose of the 14 public hearing shall be to consider the adoption of 15 comprehensive land use regulations regarding wind energy 16 facilities. 17 The local law describes the required permits, 18 establishes the application and review process for wind 19 energy facilities, establishes certain standards for 20 safety measures, traffic routes, noise standards, 21 setbacks. Among other things, it establishes criteria 22 for abatement and permit revocations. 23 The law also deals with wind measurement 24 towers and small energy conversion systems and 25 establishes certain fees. The local law also provides PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 3 1 for the Town of Lyme to opt out of the tax exemption 2 provisions of Real Property Tax Law 487. 3 The Town Board is acting as lead agency for 4 the purpose of conducting environmental review on the 5 adoption of this local law. All persons wishing to be 6 heard on this application shall be present at the date, 7 time, and place aforestated or have submitted written 8 comments in advance. 9 The full text of the local law is on file at 10 the Town Clerk's office for inspection. Any person 11 requiring special accommodations to attend or 12 participate in such hearing should notify the Town Clerk 13 at least three business days prior to the hearing. 14 The notice was published on December 19th. 15 MR. AUBERTINE: Thank you, Mark. Now I'll ask 16 you to do the explanation of the process -- explanation 17 of the proposal, please. 18 MR. GEBO: All right. Well, the proposal has 19 several components to it. And if you were to track 20 through the law itself, there was -- there were some 21 handouts, I don't know if everybody had one, but if you 22 can share with your neighbors it would be good. 23 First part really deals with establishing some 24 definitions that will be added to Article 2 of the 25 zoning law. There's also an amendment to Section 310 to PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 4 1 establish a map for overlay districts for wind energy. 2 And a copy of the map is up here. 3 There then is established a new Section 770 of 4 the law that lays out the specific process and 5 requirements for wind energy facilities and has headings 6 for the -- stating, first of all, that wind permits are 7 required, what the application process is, how the wind 8 overlay zones are created, the review process, certain 9 standards, safety measures, traffic, information, noise 10 regulations, setback information, how permits are 11 issued, what the limitations may be on the approvals, a 12 revocation process. 13 There's also a separate section dealing with 14 many of the same things for wind measurement towers; 15 another section with basically the same provisions for 16 small wind energy conversion systems; and a 17 miscellaneous section which, among other things, 18 establishes fees. 19 The law -- we'll deal with some of these 20 things a little more here in a minute, but basically the 21 issues that are dealt with throughout the law involve 22 things such as the decommissioning of towers and how 23 that will be handled; complaint resolution process is 24 put in place; the overlay district, of course, we talk 25 to; the noise standards, including provisions for PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 5 1 testing on noise after they're built, if they are built, 2 which could result if there's a violation a permit 3 revocation. 4 As part of the environmental study there will 5 be the need to do a property value analysis. Also an 6 analysis of electromagnetic interference. And there are 7 certain standards for that that are also established. 8 And the transportation and road system. This 9 will have to be analyzed under the environmental, and 10 then there's also separate provisions that call for the 11 developer of a commercial wind energy conversion system 12 to enter into agreements with the town and county, 13 et cetera, for using haul roads. 14 There's review of the shadow flicker effect 15 during the environmental process. There's visual 16 standard review during the ap -- SEQRA review process, 17 as well as certain standards set. Same thing for 18 impacts on wildlife. There's standards set also for 19 transmission lines, for the height of the towers, for 20 the hours during which they can be built, and of course 21 setback provisions that says how far they have to be 22 from neighboring properties and residences and that sort 23 of thing. 24 So all those things are incorporated in there. 25 It's obviously a lengthy document, it's a little hard to PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 6 1 go through each and every little piece of it in a 2 summary overview, but that's the overview of how the law 3 is put together. 4 MR. AUBERTINE: Thank you, Mark. I just 5 happened to remember to turn my cell phone down. If 6 everybody's got cell phones, you might want to turn them 7 down or off, please. 8 I've asked the Planning Board to attend today, 9 and maybe they can give us a little bit of explanation 10 of the process they took. So if Judy Tyndall would mind 11 helping us out with that, please. 12 MS. TYNDALL: What I did was I went through 13 the minutes for the past year just to kind of give you 14 an idea of the process we went through putting this 15 together and getting to this point today. 16 In January of '07 the Planning Board attended 17 an informational public meeting at the Thousand Island 18 High School concerning wind power in Cape Vincent. That 19 was our very first inkling that wind power would 20 probably be coming into the town of Lyme. And it was 21 extremely informational, and we were pretty awestruck. 22 February of 2007 Jim Madden from BP came for a 23 public meeting at the Town barn -- or the Town office 24 and presented an overview of wind farms for the Town of 25 Lyme and how they would like to come in through Lyme PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 7 1 coming out of Cape Vincent. 2 In March of 2007 the Town Board gave us a copy 3 of the proposed zoning regulations from the Clayton area 4 concerning wind energy coming in from the Clayton side 5 and asked the Planning Board to make appropriate changes 6 using the Clayton laws and guidelines and see how we 7 could rework it to fit Lyme. 8 The Town Board also held a public hearing at 9 the end of March and established a moratorium on wind 10 energy until our wind law zoning regulations were in 11 place. 12 April of '07 the Town Board asked that we 13 prepare a survey to determine what the property owners 14 in the Town of Lyme have to say about wind power in the 15 Town of Lyme. And that is when we started working on 16 our survey. 17 In May of '07 preliminary work actually began 18 on the survey putting it in writing. A citizens 19 advisory committee was set up by Bert Bowers to gather 20 information for the Planning Board. They did a lot of 21 research on the computers and did a lot of -- gave us a 22 lot of information that sometimes we weren't able to get 23 access to or had time to do it. 24 It was also recommended by the Town Board that 25 a public informational meeting be set up before the PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 8 1 survey went out to get information out to the public so 2 they can make a better -- answer that survey a little 3 bit better because they would have more information. 4 In June of '07 St. Lawrence Wind Farm reps 5 came to the June meeting to present the proposed 6 transmission line that would be established in Cape 7 Vincent to tie into the substation on the Depauville 8 Road. It was not known at that time that 9 St. Lawrence -- if St. Lawrence tied into the substation 10 and then BP was able to come in, if that substation 11 would have the capacity to accept power from the BP if 12 that actually all came to pass. So that was something 13 I'm sure will have to be worked out in the future. 14 They wanted to come down the DANC water line 15 and come from Cheevers Road and come across the river. 16 And that's how they wanted to tie into that substation. 17 In July of '07 the wind forum meeting was held 18 at our local high school. It was finalized who were the 19 speakers going to be and how it was going to be handled. 20 The survey was discussed and a few more changes were 21 made to some of the questions that we had. 22 We certainly weren't surveyed off -- we all 23 know a lot of people had complaints about our survey, 24 but, you know, we tried to look at it from 18 different 25 directions each time we met to try to make it as PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 9 1 unbiased as possible and try to get the questions 2 answered that we needed. 3 In August of 2007 the informational meeting 4 had occurred. The survey was sent out. The proposed 5 wind law was discussed and would be on hold until the 6 survey results came in. 7 In September of '07 Paul Carr came to our 8 meeting and gave an in-depth presentation on the wind 9 survey summary. Residents would like wind energy in the 10 Town of Lyme, but interestingly enough, the majority who 11 stated this did not wish to have turbines in the area in 12 which they lived. 13 The survey showed that residents do not want 14 turbines on the waterfront or near villages. Large 15 setbacks were in the majority, as were setbacks for 16 noise levels. This survey information will be used to 17 determine the overlay district for the wind farm 18 development. 19 In October the Planning Board accepted the 20 survey result prepared by Mike White and Paul Carr. The 21 new law was reviewed and appropriate changes made 22 regarding the survey result. 23 In November the proposed wind overlay district 24 was established, and I quote, all the area that 25 encompasses all property to the north of New York State PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 10 1 Route 12E, bordered on the northwest by the town of Cape 2 Vincent boundary, the northeast by the Town of Clayton 3 boundary, and on the east by the town of Brownville 4 boundary, with setbacks of greater than 4500 feet from 5 the high water mark of the Chaumont River and Lake 6 Ontario, the village limits of Chaumont, and the 7 lighting district of Three Mile Bay, and any other 8 exclusions. Which are marked on that proposed overlay 9 map over there. 10 In December of '07 the Planning Board met with 11 Mark Gebo, Town of Lyme attorney, and finalized the 12 zoning regulations for wind energy in the Town of Lyme. 13 And a public hearing is scheduled for January 5th and 14 January 12th at the Chaumont Fire Hall at 1 PM each 15 date. 16 MR. AUBERTINE: Thank you, Judy. Assisting 17 the Planning Board was Paul Carr. I'll ask Paul to make 18 a few comments. And if everybody can remember, we need 19 to speak up so that our transcriber can hear. 20 DR. CARR: Well, I think Judy covered 21 everything pretty well on what we did. 22 My name is Paul Carr. I have worked with the 23 Planning Board as a member of the advisory committee. 24 The only things that I would add to maybe relieve a 25 little confusion is relative to the setbacks. There are PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 11 1 several setbacks. And everybody, the easiest way to 2 have the setback from anything is to have a fixed 3 distance. And then it's not at all confusing to anyone. 4 You get a tape measure and you know what the setback is. 5 This wind law is not quite that simple. What 6 we've tried to do, and again, with -- working with the 7 Planning Board, Paul Norton, Don Bourquin, and the 8 others, have tried to put setbacks in place that protect 9 the people of the Town of Lyme, and this is one of the 10 setbacks that you'll see it at two and a half times the 11 height of the tower. That's a little confusing, we 12 don't know how high the towers will be, so why two and a 13 half times? That's simply the physics of throwing ice 14 or throwing a blade, protect people in the vicinity. 15 The setbacks at 4500 feet that you see on the 16 map are reflective of what came in in the survey 17 results. And the noise setbacks are pretty much 18 standard in the industry, how to measure noise. And the 19 noise limitations will be a function of the particular 20 topography at each site. So the setbacks that are 21 established for noise are not firm setbacks, they're 22 proscriptive setbacks that describe how loud the 23 turbines can be at a property line of a non-participant. 24 So those are the three major setback criteria 25 that you may find somewhat confusing, but if you stop PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 12 1 and think about them individually they all make sense. 2 You may not agree with the numbers, but the process 3 makes sense. So don't be confused by the setback 4 criteria. 5 The noise -- I will just give you an example: 6 The noise is a noise increase allowance above the 7 background noise of an area. And for example, if the 8 developer has a quieter turbine, they can place it 9 closer to a non-participant. If they have a noisier 10 turbine, it will have to be held back further. So some 11 of these criteria that we've set in place are controlled 12 by the developer and the machinery he selects. 13 So these are -- that's one of the reasons that 14 you can't have a very simple 1500 feet or 2500 feet or 15 4500 feet in that context. 16 So I've just been asked to make a couple of 17 comments in a couple of areas. I'll just leave it at 18 that because I did hear that some people were confused 19 by the varying setbacks. But that's why there are 20 varying setbacks, because there are varying objectives 21 to protect the people of the Town of Lyme in those 22 setbacks. 23 And I won't say anymore, Judy covered it all. 24 If there -- any questions come up relative to the survey 25 or the survey results, I would be happy to try to answer PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 13 1 them, but I'll leave it at that. 2 MR. AUBERTINE: Thank you, Paul. I want to 3 welcome everybody here. I want to thank everybody for 4 their interest and concern. It's good to see such a 5 good turnout. 6 I just want to let you know that the Town 7 Board will not reach any decision at this meeting. We 8 welcome your comments and opinions. The Town Board 9 seeks the advice and help of you, the town citizens. We 10 will take your opinions under advisement and then 11 approve or disapprove the proposal at a later meeting. 12 Anyone choosing to speak should address his or 13 her remarks to the Town Board only. In this way any 14 debate between those for and those against the proposal 15 will be avoided. I will advise you that no person may 16 speak a second time until everyone who wants to speak 17 has spoken. We will also be following the five-minute 18 rule for each individual. 19 I remind you that the Town Board is here 20 strictly to listen and not necessarily to express its 21 own views or opinions. 22 This hearing is not being held to debate 23 questions. We are here to listen to your opinion on the 24 proposal before us today. We want your advice and help 25 in coming to the proper conclusion on the matter PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 14 1 concerning which this hearing has been called. If you 2 are in favor of the proposal, simply tell us and give us 3 your reasons why, and likewise if you are against. 4 The people will be called to speak in the 5 order in which they signed the sign-in sheet. All 6 comments shall be addressed to the Board. We'll 7 probably ask you to come forward. We would like you to 8 give your name and spell it and then your address, 9 please. And please, let's not have any interruptions or 10 cross-conversation in the audience. Thank you. 11 So we do have some correspondence that was 12 sent to us that has been asked to be read. Mark, I'm 13 going to ask you to read that, please. And take your 14 time, because those calls that came in I've got to take. 15 So I'll be right back. 16 MR. GEBO: All right. Some of these letters 17 are quite lengthy, but I'll do my best here. 18 We have an email from Terry D. Novak dated 19 January 3rd, 2008. It says, hello. I'm addressing 20 this note to the members of the Town Council and the 21 Planning Board. 22 My husband and I have owned a cottage at 23 28023 Three Mile Point Road North for almost ten years 24 now. Our children have grown up spending their every 25 weekend from early May until September at the cottage. PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 15 1 In fact, they would be very unhappy when on a rare 2 occasion we would need to stay home for a family 3 function and couldn't go to the cottage. 4 We love our cottage; we love the town in which 5 it resides. It feels like home to us. It took us 6 several years of looking before we found a place as 7 lovely as this that we could also afford. It has been a 8 wonderful place to spend our summers. The view across 9 the bay where there is only farmland and no other 10 cottages offers the most spectacular sunsets I have ever 11 seen. It is just the respite we need after a long and 12 stressful week at work. 13 My husband and I both work in Rochester and 14 live halfway between Rochester and Buffalo. It is 15 almost exactly a three-hour ride door to door from our 16 home to our cottage, and we faithfully have made the 17 journey every Friday night through Sunday night, May 18 through September, since we have owned the cottage. I 19 cannot imagine spending my weekends any other way. 20 There are also many weekends when we invite 21 our family and friends from back home to come up and 22 enjoy the peaceful beauty. In fact, my sister-in-law 23 loves the area so much that she just purchased the 24 cottage next door at a considerably higher price than we 25 paid for ours just ten years ago. I'm sure that you are PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 16 1 aware of how much the property values are increasing, 2 which is a great thing for the town, and something that 3 would be negatively impacted by the presence of wind 4 towers. 5 We were very concerned when we first learned 6 of the desire to place wind towers in the Town of Lyme. 7 We could only imagine that our beautiful and peaceful 8 sunsets were about to be ruined by the drone of gigantic 9 wind towers placed into the open farmland across the bay 10 from our cottage. 11 When offered the chance to make our comments, 12 we very eagerly responded to the questionnaire. Thank 13 you for allowing us to offer our comments. We greatly 14 appreciated that. I would also like to compliment you 15 on having such a nice town website and making the 16 proposed energy law available on this website for 17 residents to review. I truly appreciate that, 18 especially given the long commute. I would have to 19 attend a town meeting personally. 20 After reading the proposed law, and I must say 21 that to me it seems quite detailed and very complete, 22 I'm especially impressed as to how detailed the process 23 for taking sound measurements is and also that you have 24 considered future applications and are requiring them to 25 abide by the original background noise level and not the PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 17 1 current level, which may be higher if there are wind 2 towers currently on them. It seems to me that you have 3 closed a lot of holes that could have potentially caused 4 problems in the future. 5 I am especially happy to see that the proposed 6 wind overlay map keeps the area across the bay from our 7 cottage free from wind towers, at least on this side of 8 12E, so I am hopeful that my sunsets will remain as 9 exquisite as they have always been. Of course, it's 10 hard to imagine exactly how big the 400 or 500-foot 11 tower is, but hopefully it will not detract from the 12 natural beauty of this location. There are not many 13 places on Earth as beautiful as the waterfront and this 14 town. 15 I'm glad to see the efforts being made by the 16 town to protect it as a natural resource that once gone 17 would be difficult, if not impossible, to restore. So 18 thank you. I am concerned that some of the wording 19 would have allowed wind towers to be placed there and 20 that us being on the other side of the bay and subject 21 to sound traveling over water, as well flicker, would 22 not be deemed close enough to the site to have impact. 23 The bay is very narrow where we are, maybe 24 only 1,000 feet. But as I read further and saw that you 25 also added 4500-foot setbacks from the water, it seems PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 18 1 like you have avoided this issue, for which we are 2 grateful. I am also happy to see that there won't be 3 any wind towers in my backyard, as the night breeze that 4 comes down the hill in the evening is especially nice, 5 and the beautiful quiet would most certainly be ruined 6 by the hum of the turbines. 7 However, given the choice or opportunity, we 8 would still prefer for the setbacks to be increased to 1 9 to 2 miles from any water or residence. That would 10 certainly keep the residents from experiencing any ill 11 effects. It would also avoid any negative impact to the 12 assessed value of their properties. 13 Thank you for being proactive and putting a 14 moratorium in place until a proper law can be 15 established to protect the current and future residents 16 of this town and to avoid the issues we have heard about 17 in neighboring communities. 18 If at all possible, I will support extending a 19 moratorium for one year to see just how well or not the 20 wind power project in Cape Vincent goes. What would it 21 hurt to wait another year? If it goes well there, then 22 the town will have assurance -- the assurances it needs. 23 If it doesn't, then we will have avoided a lot of 24 headaches and issues that may be hard to recover from. 25 Sincerely, Terry D. Novak. PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 19 1 Another letter from Stephen Rutigliano dated 2 December 24th. It's a cover letter. It says, as you 3 may know, we live in Florida for the winter. We are 4 unable to make these public hearings on wind energy 5 facilities in the town. I would so much appreciate it 6 if a Board member would read this letter at the open 7 hearings. 8 December 24th, 2007, Town of Lyme, Town 9 Councilmen: My name is Stephen Rutigliano. My family 10 has been summer residents on the shore of Three Mile Bay 11 since 1949 when my dad built our cottage. 12 I was fairly open-minded on wind energy and 13 have been to Tug Hill numerous times since the beginning 14 of their construction. When I first heard they plan to 15 construct a wind complex in our scenic area I was very 16 surprised. After all, unlike Tug Hill, this is a 17 populated area that depends on tourism and has many 18 summer residents along with retirement dream homes on 19 the water. 20 I began my research on the impact this would 21 have on our area. I found that these foreign wind 22 companies come here under cover of darkness. They meet 23 with the big landowners and sell them on the money that 24 they would make with wind towers on their land. Not 25 that hard a sell to farmers who are struggling to eke PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 20 1 out a living and save towards retirement. 2 These big companies with big money took 3 advantage of our neighboring landowners, putting them at 4 risk not only healthwise, but also setting them up for 5 possible lawsuits. 6 My research has taken me to many websites, in 7 parentheses, WIND-WATCH.ORG, end parentheses, with 8 respect -- with research links that post numerous 9 articles documented by medical doctors, for example, 10 Dr. Nina Pierpont, on the impact on people's health and 11 property values. 12 There's little doubt industrial wind turbines 13 will have an adverse effect on the health of our 14 residents. Low-frequency noise and shadow flicker cap 15 the list of health hazards. And according to real 16 estate brokers, property values go down when wind 17 turbines go up. 18 Where will the future of our town and 19 residents lie if we are surrounded by these huge 20 industrial wind turbines? Their research clearly shows 21 not only harmful to people, but do not live up to their 22 promised expectations by these foreign companies. 23 They are known to operate at under 20% of 24 their capacity, which makes them very inefficient, 25 parentheses, studies were made on Maple Ridge Wind by PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 21 1 Environmental Compliance Alliance, Rushville, New York. 2 Noise and setback issues are by far the most 3 important articles in the wind law to protect our 4 residents from health hazards. The setback of two and 5 one half times the height or 1,000 feet from a residence 6 should be doubled, at a minimum. A nonparticipant would 7 the lose their right to use, sell, or split their own 8 property. 9 We ask that the Town of Lyme continue a 10 moratorium until all factual research is studied and 11 evaluated for the good of all residents in our scenic 12 community. 13 And then he has a quote from -- that he put in 14 from the comments made by Senator Lamar Alexander to 15 Congress on May 13th, 2005. 16 MR. AUBERTINE: Do you want me to read some? 17 MR. GEBO: No, that's all right, my voice is 18 still there. 19 We have a letter from Suzanne and David 20 Seiffert, December 21, 2007. 21 Gentlemen: We can support the installation of 22 wind turbines in the Town of Lyme; however, it is 23 important to consider the rights and property values of 24 the residents. 25 It is a small minority of residents who will PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 22 1 reap the financial benefits of wind towers on their 2 property, while a large majority can potentially be 3 adversely affected if adequate zoning restrictions are 4 not imposed. 5 We believe the zoning restrictions should 6 include noise limitations of no more than 35 dB at the 7 property line, as well as significant setbacks from 8 property lines of at least 1 mile. It is not adequate 9 to consider setbacks from residents since future 10 property value and use of land is not considered. 11 We also firmly believe that wind turbines do 12 not belong near populated areas, such as villages of 13 Chaumont and Three Mile Bay, as well as the perimeters 14 of the Three Mile Point, Points Salubrious and Point 15 Peninsula. These are prime residential areas of the 16 Town of Lyme and could be ruined by poor zoning. 17 We appreciate your efforts to achieve the fair 18 zoning law, but understand that there are property 19 owners who are vocal about easing the regulations to 20 maximize the use of their property. 21 We respect their desires to benefit from their 22 property and wish that they prosper; however, the rights 23 and property values of other residents are our primary 24 concern. 25 I then have a letter from Richard Cousineau, I PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 23 1 believe. It says -- is there a date on it? I do not 2 see a date on this. 3 It says, first, I want to thank you and the 4 Town of Lyme Board for your efforts regarding the 5 proposed industrial wind farm. I also thank you for 6 allowing the citizens of the town to speak at the 7 meeting on September 12th. 8 We as a community, and the Board in 9 particular, need to gather as much information as 10 possible in order to make a wise and prudent decision. 11 This is a huge undertaking, the results of which will 12 change the landscape of our town for a very long time. 13 And cited by those who spoke at the meeting on 14 September 12th the effects are varying. And then they 15 have some bulleted items: Aesthetics of the landscape, 16 harm to wildlife, noise levels, light, and then in 17 quotes, flicker, and cost to the town. 18 I concur with the Board's decision to extend 19 the moratorium on establishing the zoning requirements 20 for an industrial wind farm. The large equipment brings 21 with it very unique characteristics which require very 22 special restrictions. It is no small task to gather the 23 information necessary to prepare a meaningful set of 24 zoning requirements. I need -- I feel that the Board 25 should take as long as it needs to properly establish PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 24 1 these zoning requirements. 2 One issue I'm concerned about is the benefit 3 to the town and power grid in general. I understand 4 that the landowners who allow the wind turbines on their 5 property receive an annual stipend for each turbine. 6 Well, what does the town receive in return for their 7 investment? Does the town receive any payment for the 8 power delivered? Will we have to build some kind of 9 pier in Chaumont Bay to receive the blades, as they 10 apparently will do in Cape Vincent? 11 I also understand that conventional generating 12 stations have to be running at standby mode to be able 13 to pick up the effort when there is insufficient wind to 14 operate the turbines. In light of this are the wind 15 turbines a real alternate source of energy? Also, how 16 successful have wind turbine programs been in other 17 countries? What kind of health issues arise from 18 increased sound levels and light flicker? There are 19 many facets of this project that need to be 20 investigated. 21 Again, I commend the Board on their effort so 22 far, and I strongly urge you to continue to take 23 adequate time to do the homework on this very major 24 project. I would also ask that you keep both seasonal 25 and year-round taxpayers and residents involved in and PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 25 1 apprized of the process. 2 Then we have an email dated November 29th, 3 2007, which appears to have been signed by Patricia 4 Booras-Miller. And, let's see, it's a copy of a letter 5 that was sent by a group called Environmentally 6 Concerned Citizens Organization of Jefferson County, 7 New York, dated November 27th, 2007. It was 8 apparently sent to Justin Taylor, Town of Clayton 9 supervisor, but then copied by email to the Town of 10 Lyme. 11 It says, I am a resident of the Horse Creek 12 Wind Farm project, and I am vice president of 13 Environmentally Concerned Citizens Organization and am 14 applying for intervener status for the following members 15 of ECCO: Patty Booras-Miller, Dr. John J. Jepma, Anne 16 Forbes -- Anna Forbes, rather, Francis G. Andre, Judy 17 Tubolino, Thomas Miller, and Deb Jepma, to be part of 18 the organized wind farm committee in the township of 19 Clayton for discussing the project and/or issues of wind 20 energy development. 21 According to the Committee on Environmental 22 Impacts of Wind Energy Project National Research 23 Council, Washington, D.C., under their publication 24 Planning For and Regulating Wind Energy Development 25 section of public participation and review, interveners PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 26 1 often include abutting property owners, town or county 2 governments, public interest groups, environmental 3 organizations, and business groups that can demonstrate 4 that they have a substantive interest in the outcome and 5 are not adequately represented by another party. 6 Clayton's wind farm committee consists of 36 7 plus slash minus members, and not one of those members 8 resides in the Horse Creek Wind Farm project. In fact, 9 the majority of its members reside miles from the 10 project. 11 We residents of the Horse Creek Wind Farm are 12 facing a serious health impact from noise initiated by 13 an inappropriate Local Law Number 1 that was clearly 14 written by the Town of Clayton for PPM Energy and not 15 for the protection of the health and well-being of the 16 residents. 17 PPM Energy's noise impact study, which clearly 18 shows that the 330 plus homes of the project face a 19 substantial increase in noise impact during sleeping 20 hours, which over long term will cause health risks. 21 PPM's noise analysis compared to the New York 22 State DEC guidelines informs us that 75% of the 23 residents in the noise study area are in the noise study 24 are 10 dBA, which is a doubling of sound or greater for 25 hours of sleep, is not acceptable for residents in the PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 27 1 Horse Creek Wind Farm project. 2 ECCO has researched sleep deprivation 3 extensively, consulting with the National Academy of 4 Engineers in Washington, D.C., as well as consulted with 5 the National Environmental Protection Agency. 6 I will quote from them that the various laws 7 enacted by Congress and the House of Representatives 8 with attention to sleep deprivation from noise impact: 9 The Quiet Communities Act of 1997, Section 2. Congress 10 finds chronic exposure to noise has been linked to 11 increased risk of cardiovascular problems, strokes, and 12 nervous disorders. Excessive noise also causes sleep 13 deprivation and task interruptions, both of which pose 14 untold costs on society and diminished worker 15 productivity. 16 Also substantiated by the House -- by the 17 Office of Noise Abatement and Control, U.S. 18 Environmental Protection Agency Noise Effect Handbook, 19 in which it clearly states, Chapter 6-4, quote, sleep is 20 thought to be a restorative process during which organs 21 of the body renew their supply of energy and nutritive 22 elements. Since noise can disrupt the sleep process, it 23 may take its toll on health and well-being if it 24 continues over long periods. 25 I state also from the Noise Control Act of PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 28 1 1972, enacted by Congress, Page 21, Section 4, which 2 clearly states, noise-induced sleep interference is one 3 of the critical components of community annoyance. It 4 can produce short-term adverse impacts, such as mood 5 changes, and decrements in task performance the next 6 day, with the possibility of more serious effects on 7 health and well-being if it continues over long periods. 8 It is clear to members of ECCO that we now 9 must take an active part in participation, especially 10 since the Clayton Town Council is not initiating 11 amending the town's Local Law Number 1 of 2007 to a 12 standard for noise impact to residents that follows the 13 guidelines of the New York State DEC or Wind Energy 14 Development Guide for Local Authorities in New York by 15 the New York State Energy Research and Development 16 Authority, which indicates clearly that residents with a 17 10 dBA and higher during hours of sleep face health 18 risks from turbine exposure. 19 We know that you have put together a law that 20 is not for the good of residents and their health. You 21 can get 10 acoustic engineer consultants to read the 22 data and the analysis. It changes nothing because it is 23 you five council members who have made the law. The law 24 was made to accommodate PPM, not the residents. 25 It is clear with information from laws I just PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 29 1 quoted that the United States Congress on community and 2 environmental noise impacts that the Town of Clayton has 3 instituted a local law that clearly puts the residents 4 of Horse Creek Wind Farm in harm's way. 5 The local law must be amended to reflect 6 protective health and welfare guidelines of the 7 residents where any wind farm is placed in our township. 8 The Town Council must amend Local Law Number 1 to 9 reflect a responsible wind farm. If we are to have a 10 wind farm, then put it in correctly. 11 ECCO recommends that the local law be amended 12 to include every resident have a noise analysis 13 performed on their property line to establish a baseline 14 noise level and that increased levels of ambient sound 15 be at 5 dBA according to the level for outside barely 16 discernable difference. 17 New York State DEC is not the only measure of 18 ambient sound levels, but you also have at your disposal 19 the Wind Energy Development Quota Guide for Local 20 Authorities in New York, New York State Energy Research 21 and Environment Authority, Albany, New York. 22 ECCO also recommends, which was the National 23 Academy of Engineers, Washington, D.C., Renewable Energy 24 Resource Laboratory, Department of Mechanical and 25 Industrial Engineering, University of Massachusetts at PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 30 1 Amherst. 2 It has been a long eight months since we met 3 with members of the council on this, and ECCO has been 4 informed on your complexities of the wind farm. We know 5 that renewable industrial wind energy is here to stay, 6 but you cannot put in a wind farm that will endanger the 7 health and welfare of children and their families. 8 You five members of this council, we as you -- 9 I think they mean we ask you to amend the present local 10 law to a responsible law that protects the health and 11 well-being of the residents located in the wind farm in 12 this township. 13 ECCO awaits the decision of this council to be 14 included in the process of putting this wind farm on our 15 land. ECCO awaits the decision of this council to 16 inform us of your decision to amend Local Law Number 1 17 for wind turbines. 18 I have a letter from Frank J. Congel dated 19 September 15th, 2007. It says, thank you for the 20 flyer describing your qualifications -- it was written 21 to Warren Johnson. 22 It says thank you for describing your 23 qualifications for serving as a town councilman. It 24 appears that you and I are of the same generation. My 25 wife and I have also been married 42 years, have three PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 31 1 grown children and five grandchildren. Apparently 1965 2 was a good year for marriage. 3 By way of background, I retired from the U.S. 4 Nuclear Regulatory Commission in 2005 after a 32-year 5 career licensing and regulating the nation's nuclear 6 power industry. 7 My wife and I then moved back up north to our 8 vacation home on Point Peninsula, making it our 9 permanent residence. I continue to consult in the 10 nuclear field using my home here as my base. 11 My attachment to the North Country began as a 12 child growing up in Central New York when my closest 13 uncle frequently brought me here to fish and hunt with 14 him. 15 After receiving my undergraduate degree in 16 physics from LeMoyne College, I pursued graduate studies 17 at Clarkson University and received my PhD in 1968. 18 Since then we have lived in various parts of 19 this great country of ours, staying the longest in 20 Maryland. However, we always wanted to return to 21 Upstate, and we have. 22 I recognize the challenges of the electorate 23 process you are seeking; however, I believe that if you 24 win, you will be one of the decision makers of the most 25 important issue to have faced the area for a long time: PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 32 1 The issue of wind generators. 2 I was not familiar with the technical details 3 of wind generation when I first learned of the 4 controversies in Cape Vincent late last year. However, 5 being the technical type, I invested time and effort to 6 learn about the industry in greater depth. What I have 7 found is disturbing because the facts surrounding wind 8 generation are not what one may intuitively expect. 9 Attached is a write-up that I prepared and 10 have circulated to several friends and neighbors, to our 11 representatives in Albany and Washington, and Governor 12 Spitzer. A version of this article is scheduled to 13 appear in the Syracuse Post Standard Sunday, 14 September 16th, 2007. 15 My only request to you is to carefully study 16 the wind generation issue so that you make an 17 insightful, informed decision. This is too -- there is 18 too much animosity and irrationality generated, sadly, 19 by money being thrown around by the wind developer. But 20 this issue if decided incorrectly will adversely affect 21 the area, the lives of our grandchildren through many 22 years. I would be happy to discuss any aspect of this 23 the issue with you. And then he gives a phone number 24 and an email. 25 Do you want me to read the attachment? His PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 33 1 attachment is a windmill facts. It says, the Town of 2 Lyme will be deciding its future this fall. Will the 3 township decide to become an industrial zone with many 4 windmills in its midst or will it retain its quiet, 5 rural, outdoor recreational character? 6 To make an informed decision, important 7 information needs to be understood and considered. 8 First, it is essential to appreciate the size of the 9 proposed windmills. They will dwarf every other 10 structure and will be visible for tens of miles in every 11 direction. 12 At night as required by the FAA about one half 13 of windmills will have a red light on its top. Every 14 one of them flashing on and off at the same time. For 15 some distance from each windmill will be a constant, 16 when the wind is turning them, noise that will drown out 17 the normal bird-chirping, frog-croaking background. 18 In return for the windmills' presence, the 19 town may realize an increase in its tax base. The 20 change in tax revenues has not yet been determined, but 21 will depend on a number of factors. Since the windmills 22 are exempt from full assessment for 15 years, taxes will 23 be collected through the Payment-in-Lieu-of-Taxes 24 program. The actual tax from the windmill sites will be 25 negotiated by the town with windmill owners. Typically PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 34 1 the initial payments through PILOT for windmills 2 represent a discount of about 80% of the taxes that 3 would be paid if assessments were levied at full value. 4 Countering the increased revenue from the 5 windmill owners will be the reduction and assessments 6 for properties affected negatively by the presence of 7 windmills. Recreational properties are of particular 8 concern because their assessments represent a 9 significant fraction of the town's tax base. 10 The change in landscape from scenic to 11 industrial could have a significant affect on the value 12 of recreational properties reducing and thereby 13 counteracting increases in taxes brought by windmill 14 owners. 15 In addition, the presence of windmill farms 16 could reduce the increased number of recreational 17 visitors to the region. There are no definitive answers 18 now, but the expectation that the town will enjoy extra 19 income and a reduction in everybody's property tax is 20 far from clear. 21 Are windmills needed to help our local and 22 national energy issues? First of all, only 3% of our 23 electricity nationwide is generated by burning oil. 24 Consequently, there will be no reduction in our nation's 25 oil imports by the operation of any North Country PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 35 1 windmills. 2 Windmills generate small amounts of 3 electricity only when the wind is blowing within a 4 certain range. Millions of New York homes are now 5 provided electricity by many large generators in the 6 North Country: Hydro, coal, nuclear. 7 For perspective, the total amount of 8 electricity from the proposed St. Lawrence Wind Firm in 9 Cape Vincent would represent less than 2% of the 10 electricity produced by the Nine Mile Point/FitzPatrick 11 site near Oswego. That site occupies about 900 acres 12 and produces electricity independent of wind or other 13 weather conditions. 14 By comparison, St. Lawrence Winds 96 proposed 15 windmills would be spread over 18 square miles, about 16 10,000 acres, and produce enough electricity to light 17 one 100-watt bulb in 400,000 homes. 18 Even this small amount of electricity would 19 not affect the need for large electricity producers. 20 The big hydro, coal, and nuclear facilities run 21 virtually continuously at maximum output to provide base 22 electrical needs. 23 Windmills will compete with generators, called 24 peaking units, that can be cycled on and off to meet 25 demands above the base. Peaking units will need to PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 36 1 remain to meet electrical needs when there is 2 insufficient wind, parentheses, about 70% of the time, 3 and for other peak needs. 4 Ironically, windmills will most likely replace 5 electricity provided by peaking units that burn natural 6 gas, one of the cleanest fuel sources available. 7 Natural gas. 8 Why is there so much interest in building 9 windmill farms and why is there so much foreign 10 investment proposed for our community? Clearly, there 11 must be opportunities to receive substantial returns on 12 investments. 13 According to a wind generator developer who 14 has spoken at several local and public meetings, the 15 goal is to receive a 25% plus return annually on their 16 investment. To begin with, the Federal and New York 17 State governments are providing generous tax benefits to 18 windmill companies, parentheses, accelerated 19 depreciation of the equipment and many others, end 20 parentheses, that reduce, if not eliminate, corporate 21 income taxes. 22 New York also provides for large property tax 23 reductions through the PILOT program for at least 15 24 years, allowing local governments to negotiate much 25 smaller property tax payments from windmill operators PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 37 1 that would -- than would ever be considered for any 2 individual with property of palpable value. In 3 addition, New York State will be collecting extra money 4 from its citizens through their electric bills, 5 parentheses, a surcharge, and will give the extra money 6 to windmill operators for generating electricity. See a 7 description of the New York Renewable Portfolio Standard 8 on the New York State website. 9 This money is above and beyond the money paid 10 to the windmill operators for selling electricity to the 11 electrical grid, and is above and beyond the generous 12 tax breaks. The money will simply increase the profits 13 of mostly European investors. 14 As is well known, New York residents are 15 already paying the highest electrical rates in the 16 nation. This will make the current electric bills even 17 higher. If it wasn't for the generous handouts of money 18 to windmill operators, the projects would not be 19 economically feasible. 20 New York has programs such as PILOT to 21 encourage industries to locate in the state and create 22 much needed jobs. The construction workers required to 23 build the St. Lawrence Wind project will come from the 24 Buffalo area. St. Lawrence Wind will create one 25 permanent, low-paying job if it's completed. Any PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 38 1 project proposed for the Town of Lyme would likely 2 follow the same pattern. 3 Our Town Council is faced with a very 4 difficult decision. Is a wind farm in our community 5 worth a total change in the character that it will 6 cause? Will the net result be an improvement toward 7 quality of life? Do we need the possible increase in 8 property tax income? Will we drive away our current 9 source of growth: Tourists and new tax-paying residents 10 to this beautiful, unspoiled region? 11 Town traffic consisting of visitors has 12 increased, as has their spending. We have two banks 13 with sparkling new buildings. This growth and 14 prosperity is occurring without windmills. We must be 15 very careful that the growth doesn't come to a halt when 16 the landscape for miles in all directions is dominated 17 by 40-story tall windmills. 18 In summary, windmills generate very small 19 amounts of electricity, do not reduce our dependence on 20 foreign oil, do not pay a full share of property taxes, 21 increase electrical bills, take profits to Europe, and 22 create no new jobs. The advantages of these machines in 23 our midst must be carefully and objectively measured 24 against their costs. 25 Then we have a letter from -- I think it's my PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 39 1 last one -- from Patricia and Edward Hughes dated 2 January 2nd, 2008. 3 The more research we do, the more we are 4 convinced that the Town of Lyme is too small an area to 5 support an industrial wind turbine complex. 6 It is impossible to allow turbines to be 7 mill -- met without offending the rights of property 8 owners who do not want to be exposed to shadow flicker, 9 high- and low-frequency sounds, decreased property 10 value, and destruction of their breathtaking views, 11 inland and lake. Towering wind turbines instantly 12 transform land for neighborhoods into hideous industrial 13 sites. 14 If it is the Board's decision to allow 15 turbines, it is imperative that the law protects all 16 members of our community from the adverse effects of 17 wind turbines. 18 After reviewing the proposed Town of Lyme Wind 19 Energy Facilities Law, we ask that the Board consider 20 the following measures. Current medical studies 21 recommend the turbines should be placed no closer than 22 one and a half miles to any home, school, or hospital to 23 protect citizens from adverse health effects. Proposed 24 setbacks should be changed to reflect these 25 recommendations. PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 40 1 Setbacks have to be great enough to protect 2 our wells from contamination, a recent development at 3 Maple Ridge. Setbacks should be one half mile from 4 every road to ensure that ice throw is not a problem. 5 If studies show that shadow flicker will 6 interfere with residences, turbines should not be placed 7 in that area. Blackout curtains and other measures are 8 not a solution, but a hindrance to the landowner. 9 Shadow flicker deprives the landowner of the right to 10 fully enjoy their property and residence. 11 Visual impact: All transmission lines should 12 be located underground. No exceptions. All turbine 13 lights should be fitted with partial covers. This has 14 been done at other turbine sites. It allows air traffic 15 to see the lights and decreases the effect of the 16 flashing red lights on landowners. 17 Proof of continuous liability insurance for 18 potential damage or injury to landowners, occupants, or 19 third parties. Acknowledgment by the landowner that 20 they are financially responsible if the owner/operator 21 fails to reclaim the site as required, timeline set 22 prior to construction. 23 All properties in the Town of Lyme should be 24 appraised at the wind company's expense before 25 construction begins. Turbine companies should be held PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 41 1 accountable for any loss in the sale of property. 2 Attached is a letter from the Daily Star dated 11/3/07. 3 Just the potential of having wind towers in Stanford, 4 New York, has caused real estate offers to be canceled. 5 Attached is the wind generator and wind 6 generating facilities ordinance for Trempealeau County 7 in Wisconsin. It's just a guess on that, by the way. 8 It addresses many of our concerns and can act as a model 9 for some of issues we need to focus on. We believe that 10 moving ahead with any project in which we are not lead 11 agency may be detrimental to the Town of Lyme. It would 12 be foolish for us to adopt a law that would allow us to 13 enter into projects with communities that have no law, 14 as we have no idea what their law will allow and how it 15 will affect our community. 16 Perfect example is Cape Vincent. They have 17 not established appropriate guidelines for laws or 18 turbines. A one-year moratorium extension would allow 19 us to observe what happens in Cape Vincent and 20 communities similar to ours, and in parentheses, flat 21 terrain, waterfront, tourist region, end parentheses, 22 begins putting up an industrial turbine complex. 23 There's no harm in waiting. The wind will still be 24 here. In fact, we might receive superior bids from 25 other turbine companies. PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 42 1 We would like to welcome Supervisor Aubertine 2 to the Board and commend him on his stand concerning 3 wind turbines in the Town of Lyme. We agree that wind 4 turbines -- or wind farms present more negatives than 5 positives. We support Scott's statement that turbines 6 should have setbacks of at least 2500 feet and only be 7 allowed along the Clayton line border. 8 Since this is over twice the setback distance 9 that is currently being considered, it would create an 10 overlay district more appropriate for the Town of Lyme. 11 And then it's signed. And there's a number of 12 attachments which are many, many pages and I will not 13 read. 14 That's all the correspondence I have. 15 MR. AUBERTINE: Thank you, Mark. Don't you 16 all wish you had wrote a letter now? 17 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Next time read them at 18 the end. 19 MR. AUBERTINE: Okay. We will open the floor 20 up for public comments. I want to remind you that it 21 looks like you're going -- it's going to be hard to get 22 all the way forward, so if you're in the back just try 23 to make it as close as you can. 24 I'll remind you to give your name and spell it 25 and your address. And just let us know if you're in PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 43 1 favor of the proposal, simply tell us and give your 2 reasons why. Likewise if you're against. And all 3 comments should be addressed to the Board. And please, 4 let's not have any interruptions or cross-conversation 5 in the audience. 6 So the first person to sign in was Darwin 7 Paro. 8 MR. PARO: My name is Darwin Paro. I live at 9 11147 County Route 8, Town of Chaumont. 10 I am in favor of looking into the wind 11 turbines. Why I'm in favor, they will be an economic 12 impact given to the town moneywise. 13 We are mandated year after year by states, 14 then the town has to reach into our back pocket, take 15 our money out for taxes. Our taxes keep going up. Why 16 don't we look into something that brings a little money 17 back in and helps deviate from taking money out of our 18 back pocket? 19 And I'm going to give you one instance that 20 I'm involved in, and that's the fire department. I've 21 been an officer in this fire department for over 12 22 years. The state mandates more rules and regs on us all 23 the time. People are not responding to fires because 24 they can't be going to classes and keeping up on all the 25 mandates. Eventually the people in the Town of Lyme is PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 44 1 going to come up with a thing of a paid fire department. 2 Where are you going to get the money from? 3 That's only one area. You got the town 4 equipment; you have the schools. I think we need to 5 look at this, not just simply, well, I don't want it or 6 I want it. What's really going to benefit us. We going 7 to keep driving money away from this town or are we 8 going to put our heads together and work and get a 9 little money coming into this town? There's no industry 10 going to come in here, it's all going elsewhere. Where 11 is our kids going? 12 Instead of being like a horse with blinders on 13 or an ostrich with their head stuck in the sand, let's 14 stop fighting amongst ourselves, put our heads together, 15 and see if this wind farm is going to really benefit us 16 and can it benefit us. And I think it can. 17 And I appreciate and thank you for your time. 18 MR. AUBERTINE: Thank you, Dar. Dan Villa? 19 MR. VILLA: My name is Dan Villa, V-I-L-L-A. 20 I live at 26130 County Route 57. Common name is the 21 Carrying Place. 22 I've lived there for seven years now, and I 23 can tell you that I have done numerous research over the 24 seven years on small wind turbines for my house because 25 of my energy consumption. And I've visited wind farms PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 45 1 in Palm Springs, I've seen them in Wyoming, of course 2 we've all been to Tug Hill. 3 And I'm not necessarily opposed to wind farms, 4 but my main concern is that when I sit on my property 5 and the quietness that I have around my property, I was 6 concerned about the noise. I can't speak to shadow 7 flicker and I can't speak to the devaluation of my 8 property by windmills coming up. 9 I can tell you I lived in Massena, New York, 10 in 1978 when they built the 765 line. It's a big power 11 line from Massena to Utica. No one had any input on 12 where that line was going to go. And I think that the 13 proposed zoning regulations here have taken into 14 consideration everything that needs to be looked at. 15 It's taken into consideration people still 16 have the opportunities to have turbines on their 17 property; it's taken into consideration that the sound 18 or the noise from these turbines will be eliminated or 19 at least minimized by setbacks; and I think the proposed 20 regulations have accommodated everyone here. 21 I too am in favor of looking at taxes and how 22 we can control tax rate, but I think we have to look at 23 this whole piece and whether or not we're going to 24 disrupt where we live because of the noise in 25 particular. PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 46 1 Like I said, I don't know what impact shadow 2 flicker is going to have on my property. The sun moves 3 very quickly, so I think shadow flicker is very minimal. 4 And as far as determining the value of my 5 property because of a wind turbine, I don't know that 6 either. But the sound is the major concern that I have, 7 and setbacks that are in this regulation right now I 8 think address the sound problem, and I think that's a 9 number one concern. 10 So I'm in favor of the development in the Town 11 of Lyme; I'm in favor of development that is in the best 12 interest of everyone in this room, and I'm in favor of 13 development that will allow us to still have the quality 14 of life that we've had here. 15 I've only been here seven years, but I can 16 tell you when I tell people I live in a community that 17 doesn't have a red light, they look at me like where are 18 you living? And I tell them it's one of the best places 19 I've ever been. 20 So I think the regulation is done nicely, I 21 think there's been a lot of effort in it, and I support 22 the way the regulation is written at this time. 23 MR. AUBERTINE: Thank you, Dan. Joyce Gould? 24 MS. GOULD: Joyce Gould, J-O-Y-C-E, G-O-U-L-D. 25 I live at 8559 Church Street, Three Mile Bay. And I PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 47 1 moved here from Michigan. I've been here for 32 years, 2 and I've seen things go downhill drastically. 3 Farms that used to be prosperous are now hay 4 fields. And the people in the town, the seniors and 5 people on disability and that are having a terrible time 6 with water bills and taxes and whatnot. And this would 7 help us extremely. It would help the whole community. 8 Another thing is noise level. I keep hearing 9 a lot of things about the noise level. I have a 10 grandfather clock that gongs every 15 minutes, every 11 half hour and plays music. And you get used to that 12 noise and you still sleep through it. 13 I've traveled -- I've been to Europe, and -- 14 in the past six years my son was over there. And they 15 have wind turbines all over the place. They're right 16 next to the highways and the Autobahn. And I've never 17 once heard of ice hitting a car, ice fall on a house. 18 They're right over top houses, they're right over top 19 the highways and whatnot. 20 Another thing is the surveys. We did the 21 surveys, and it shows that the people definitely want 22 the wind turbines. 23 The wind turbines would help this community 24 grow. So many people, and like different ones have 25 said, their children have left the area because there is PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 48 1 nothing here. There is no industry, there is nothing. 2 This would help us to grow. 3 I understand there's a town down near 4 Rochester that they don't -- nobody in that town pays 5 property tax because of the wind turbines. That town is 6 growing. 7 Another thing is it's nice that the town is 8 worrying about these summer people that come in the 9 summer, and they do pay taxes, I agree, but it would be 10 nice if the town worried about the people that are here 11 year-round. We're the ones that are paying the high 12 heat costs, and we're the ones that are keeping the town 13 going so it don't end up to be a ghost town in the 14 wintertime. So I definitely am for the wind turbines. 15 MR. AUBERTINE: Thank you, Joyce. Don 16 Metzger? 17 MR. METZGER: Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman. 18 For the stenographer, my name is Don Metzger, 19 M-E-T-Z-G-E-R, County Route 5, Three Mile Bay. 20 For the record, for the past 17 -- for the 21 past 27 years I have been a year-round resident, 22 landowner, taxpayer and registered voter, property owner 23 here in the Town of Lyme. 24 I have read the new proposed local law, and my 25 general assessment of it is good and applaud the PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 49 1 Planning Board and the Town Board for the hard work that 2 they have put into this proposed law. And because of 3 that I wish to make a few comments. 4 But before I comment on the law specifically, 5 I would respectfully request the Board to reject the 6 letter that was sent to you that you just read that we 7 all patiently sat here and listened to that was undated. 8 I don't remember the name of the person that sent it, 9 but an undated document to me is worthless. Unsigned, 10 undated document is worthless. 11 And regards to the email that was sent, we all 12 patiently sat here and listened to that. That I don't 13 think was signed. If it was a scanned signature on the 14 email, fine. If it was not, I would respectfully 15 request that the Board reject that communication in the 16 form of an email that was not signed. 17 In regards to the local law, which I have 18 read, I would ask that you refer to Page Numbered 9, 19 Section C. C as in Charlie. It's about a little more 20 than halfway down the page. Fire protection. 21 Thank God for our volunteer fire department. 22 What would communities like us do without volunteer fire 23 departments? I would like to see this written up, this 24 law, so that it's a little more imperative upon the 25 applicant, in this case BP, that they be responsible PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 50 1 for -- well, let me put it this way: I don't think 2 there's anybody in our wonderful volunteer fire 3 department that has the expertise and the wherewithal to 4 deal with someone that is incapacitated, injured, 5 whatever, 300 feet high on top of the tower or inside 6 the pylon. I don't think there's anybody in our 7 volunteer fire departments that have the expertise, 8 training, equipment, and specialized equipment to deal 9 with an electrical fire in a 60-ton turbine that sits 10 300 feet high in the air on top of the pylon. I don't 11 think there's anybody in our volunteer fire department 12 or emergency response people in Jefferson County that 13 have the expertise and the wherewithal and the 14 specialized equipment to deal with fluids that are 15 dripping out of the turbine. 16 And I refer -- well, I'll refer to this later. 17 I would like to see the local law written a little 18 stronger to make the applicant responsible for the -- 19 all expenses involved in training our volunteer people 20 and in drilling them and in keeping them current and 21 updated. Any expenses incurred is on the backs of BP, 22 not on the backs of our community and on the backs of 23 our volunteer fire departments. 24 I would like to see BP be responsible for the 25 purchase and maintenance and renewal of any specialized PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 51 1 equipment that needs -- that we would need to respond to 2 emergencies at the sites. 3 On Page Number 10, Page 10, Section I, I like 4 India, groundwater impacts. 5 MR. AUBERTINE: Don, you got two minutes. 6 MR. METZGER: Okay. 7 MS. GOULD: It's Page 11 in ours. 8 MR. METZGER: This is Page 10 from the 9 internet, groundwater impacts. I would like to see the 10 town write that up so that it also includes the 11 underground fresh water aquifer. Because many of us in 12 this town are on wells, we depend on wells in our farms 13 and in our homes. And if you do extensive drilling, 14 blasting, excavating, and digging for the huge 15 foundations necessary to support the huge towers, you 16 have the potential to impact the fresh water ground -- 17 the fresh water aquifer, therefore impacting negatively, 18 possibly, on the wells. I would like to see the onus be 19 on BP's back, not on the community, to rectify any 20 problems with wells. 21 Page Number 10 F, 10 F. That's 10 if you got 22 it off the internet. It says property value. Where -- 23 yes, property values. I'm not sure if I understand the 24 intent of that. I'm not sure where you're trying to go 25 with that. If somebody does a property analysis and PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 52 1 then they say, well, Mr. Smith, your property is going 2 to be lowered by 30% because of the wind towers across 3 the street from you, does that mean that we're supposed 4 to go to the Town Board and ask for a reassessment of 5 our property values and all? I'm not -- I don't know 6 why that's in there. I don't know where you're going 7 with that. I know this is not the forum to ask 8 questions, only make comments, but maybe you could 9 confer amongst yourselves later. 10 MR. AUBERTINE: Okay, Don, we're going to have 11 to cut you off now. We'll give you a chance to speak 12 after everyone else has spoken. 13 MR. METZGER: I appreciate that, Mr. Chairman. 14 Thank you. 15 MR. AUBERTINE: Thank you. Larry Comins? 16 MR. COMINS: Larry Comins. L-A-R-R-Y, 17 C-O-M-I-N-S. Sixty-nine years lived in the Town of 18 Lyme. I live at 10260 County Route 5. 19 The town's informal survey was not a legal way 20 of determining results for a yes or no opinion on the 21 wind tower project. They should have done a referendum 22 vote by the Town of Lyme voters registered to vote here 23 only. There is approximately 900 register voters, not 24 2300, which was sent out. I personally got two surveys, 25 and probably many others did also, even those who are PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 53 1 not legally Town of Lyme voters. 2 The town and county rate went up by 9.1% this 3 year. I just got my tax notice. If the wind project 4 goes through, next two years taxes could decrease by 5 maybe 80%. 6 If a citizen gets only five minutes -- if a 7 citizen gets only five minutes to comment, letters 8 should also be the same amount of time. There should be 9 no more moratoriums or we may be out of the program, 10 period. They're going to be moving on to someplace 11 else. Setbacks will allow no towers, or very few, it's 12 got listed in this today's regulation. 13 Watertown Daily Times Sunday stated Lowville 14 just received $8.1 million. Does this sound like it 15 only benefits the landowners or the turbines? This is 16 not the first time the paper has run articles of monies 17 they have received. This can greatly benefit our town. 18 Thank you. 19 MR. AUBERTINE: Thank you, Larry. I was the 20 first one to realize I made a mistake. We'll put 21 letters last next time. But thanks for bearing with us. 22 Dawn Munk? 23 MS. MUNK: Dawn Munk, M-U-N-K. I live at 24 7281 New York State Route 12E, Three Mile Bay. 25 I wrote a few things down. My name is Dawn PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 54 1 Munk, and I am a taxpayer, a voter, and a lifelong 2 resident of the Town of Lyme. I have raised my children 3 and sent them to school in this town. 4 I am a voter for wind. Wind power is a safe, 5 renewable energy source that poses little or no threat 6 to the environment. With current concerns regarding 7 global warming and dependence on foreign oil from 8 unstable, hostile governments, it seems that we must all 9 be seeking alternative energy solutions. 10 Unlike coal mining with its risk of mining 11 accidents, or nuclear power plants with the risk of 12 nuclear accidents like Three Mile Island and Chernobyl, 13 wind farming poses no catastrophic danger. We have an 14 opportunity to leave a positive ecological and economic 15 footprint for our future; more importantly, for the 16 benefit of our grandchildren, great grandchildren, and 17 great, great grandchildren. 18 The time is now to start making changes. Wind 19 is a resource that we have in abundance. We don't have 20 to drill it or mine it, we just have to harness it. I 21 believe that the proposed Local Law Number 8 is entirely 22 too restrictive, making it a certainty that no wind 23 developer could or would develop a wind farm in this 24 community. And perhaps that is the intent. 25 The proposed setbacks are three times the PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 55 1 setbacks of any other wind project in the state. The 2 proposed setbacks virtually eliminate any development on 3 even the largest farm properties in this township. The 4 proposed noise restrictions are nearly twice as 5 restrictive as any other wind farm in the state. 6 I am very disappointed, disillusioned and 7 disturbed by the way our Town Board, Planning Board, and 8 Zoning Board have handled this issue. It has been clear 9 to me that the Board members who are elected to serve 10 the will of the people of the community have done 11 everything in their power to obstruct the proposed 12 development of wind power. 13 I naively believed that as our representatives 14 these Board members would be doing a great deal of 15 research into the pros and cons of wind development. It 16 is clear to me now that the Board has put much effort 17 into identifying the cons, but little energy into 18 identifying the pros. 19 Instead, they have called moratoriums and 20 continued to want to extend the moratorium to delay 21 dealing with this issue. Again, I was naive, initially 22 thinking that during the moratorium the Board would be 23 taking advantage of the time to research all of the 24 issues by meeting with and talking with other towns that 25 have developed wind farms in order to get facts from PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 56 1 them, learn from their experiences as to what the 2 benefits have been, what the drawbacks have been, what 3 they would have done differently, and how they 4 negotiated with developers to get optimal benefits in 5 their area. An opportunity to learn from others, not to 6 reinvent the wheel. 7 I was therefore extremely disturbed when I 8 traveled to the Maple Ridge Wind Farm with a group of 9 local folks in October and we were able to meet with 10 members of the Town Board in Lowville, and I asked the 11 question have you as a Board been approached by the Town 12 of Lyme Board to discuss your experience of wind 13 development? The answer was no. 14 Additionally, the town -- the Lyme Town Board 15 has chosen not to meet with representatives of BP 16 because of the moratorium to discuss the exact proposal 17 for our own area. Perhaps they were afraid they might 18 be tainted by entering into direct conversation with 19 wind developers. However, they have not been hesitant 20 to enter into a contract with a local engineer who has 21 clearly been the lead agent in providing information at 22 the summer informational meeting at Lyme Central School, 23 development of the survey that was sent out to all 24 residents, obvious advisor to the Planning Board and 25 Town Board, and major contributor, if not author, of the PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 57 1 Lyme Town Law Number 8. 2 He is but one resident of this town. I 3 believe the town would have been better served if an 4 outside, objective third party had been hired as 5 consultant. I would have had more respect for the 6 findings. 7 Economically, the revenues from the wind farms 8 would be a huge boost to our area and our small school. 9 There would be a few full-time jobs once construction is 10 complete, but think of the jobs and money that will come 11 into our community in the process of construction. 12 Many local construction businesses will surely 13 be involved, and those that come to build will also buy 14 lunch and buy gas, et cetera. Couldn't the Town of Lyme 15 use the revenues that the wind farm would produce? 16 And what about the landowners who have 17 turbines placed on their property? Won't they spend 18 money in our local businesses? Wouldn't it be nice if 19 we could improve and build infrastructure so that 20 everyone could have public water and maybe even a sewage 21 system? 22 Certainly there are those who would say that 23 the turbines will be unsightly and detract from the 24 beauty of the area. On the other hand, some find them 25 to be magnificent and interesting. PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 58 1 Surely in the days of our forefathers when 2 electricity was invented many people thought that the 3 landscape was ruined by the endless poles and wires 4 needed to transmit the electricity. However, now, these 5 same poles and wires are something that we do not even 6 notice except when an ice storm reminds us. 7 I hope that all residents of the town will 8 look into the known benefits to communities, and I hope 9 that all will let their elected officials know where 10 they stand on wind development in our community. We do 11 not need another moratorium, we need action. Thank you. 12 MR. AUBERTINE: Thank you, Dawn. 13 [Applause] 14 MR. AUBERTINE: Guy Gosier. 15 MR. GOSIER: My name is Guy Gosier from Three 16 Mile Bay. And I am for wind turbine power for the Town 17 of Lyme. 18 I have questions that relate and apply to our 19 town's assessment of this wind power. I know the 20 Planning Board worked hard to try to make some zoning 21 laws work. We do not need another moratorium. 22 The number one is setbacks. In October 2007 23 when the survey came back from being sent out earlier, 24 approximately 900 people responded. 25 Survey question number two: What is your PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 59 1 opinion for industrial wind turbines located in the Town 2 of Lyme? In favor was 474 yes; not in favor, 245 no. 3 Almost a two to one in favor. 4 Question number seven on the survey: How far 5 from the waterfront, including Chaumont River, should 6 the turbines be set back? At 1500 feet 173 people said 7 yes; at 3000 feet 136 people said yes; at 4500 feet only 8 67 people said yes. Now all of a sudden this new 9 proposed zoning law, a certain few want 4500 feet. This 10 is unfair and not what most of the people want. 11 Survey question number eight: How far from 12 the hamlet of Three Mile Bay, the village of Chaumont, 13 should the setbacks be? On 1500 feet 148 people said 14 yes; on 3,000 feet 118 people said yes; on 4500 feet 15 only 97 people said yes. How can a few people in this 16 community say that 4500 feet is what the rest of the 17 town wants? These setbacks need to be adjusted. 18 At a regular meeting, the Town Board meeting 19 on November 14th, 2007, resolution number 2134, on a 20 motion by Councilman Johnson, seconded by Councilman 21 Madill to accept the wind survey as written. Four yeas. 22 To my opinion this is the law when a resolution is 23 passed. 24 Also, under Section 770 in the Zoning Law, 25 Wind Energy Conversion Systems, Article 1 under H. PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 60 1 Transfer. No transfer from any energy facility or 2 special use permit, nor the sale of an entity owning 3 such a facility, including the sale of 30% of the stock, 4 will occur without town approval, which shall be only 5 granted on written acceptance by the transferee. 6 No company will ever build here under this 7 agreement. This means the town will not issue a PILOT 8 program and wants to know where and when the company can 9 sell their stock. If I had stock to sell, I certainly 10 wouldn't let the Town of Lyme know. 11 [Laughter] 12 MR. GOSIER: This is not legal and none of the 13 town's business. These surveys were passed out with 14 Town Board approval? Why are the people of this town 15 being shoved aside to meet the demands of a certain few 16 people? 17 On economics: Not only will the Town of Lyme 18 benefit from the wind power, so will the farmers if a 19 PILOT program and other arrangements can be worked out. 20 This is a proposal approximately for 35 to 45 21 wind turbines in the Town of Lyme east of 12E and to the 22 Case Road. These farmers will lease land to the 23 developers using a small size turbine, 1.5 megawatts, 24 for approximately 9,000 to 12,000 per year each. The 25 town, the county, and the schools split revenues. PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 61 1 Approximately 350,000 to 650,000 per year will come in 2 here. 3 This would cut our school taxes. The county 4 would get $150,000, the town would get approximately 5 300,000, and the school would get approximately 6 $200,000. This would cut our school taxes in half. 7 There is no need to raise taxes. 8 This will create approximately 65 jobs locally 9 and approximately 150 jobs during construction. I think 10 the town should change these zoning law proposals and 11 give the people of the Town of Lyme what they want. 12 Thank you. 13 [Applause] 14 MR. DISCOUNT: Should there be clapping going 15 on here? Are people supposed to be validating or not? 16 I thought this was supposed to be at you and not towards 17 us. 18 MR. AUBERTINE: You probably have a good 19 point. We will keep the clapping down. 20 Julia Gosier. 21 MS. GOSIER: I'm Julia Gosier, G-O-S-I-E-R. 22 And I live at 28589 Empie Road in Three Mile Bay. 23 I am for wind power; I am not for all of the 24 details in the present zoning -- proposed zoning law. I 25 went through 14 months of Town Board meeting minutes. PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 62 1 If they are correct, no resolution was ever passed to 2 appoint an advisory committee to the Planning Board. 3 However, at the May 2007 Town Board meeting it 4 was announced that the Planning Board had an advisory 5 committee of Deanne Scanlon, Sue Warner, and Norm 6 Ahlheim. 7 Warren Johnson was also never authorized by 8 resolution of the Town Board to take any part whatsoever 9 in the Planning Board's wind power project. Suddenly he 10 is heavily involved in the Planning Board meetings with 11 the help of Paul Carr, who has no official authorization 12 to be involved in any way, nor can I find any evidence 13 that he has any credentials warranting his involvement. 14 Nothing that relates to wind power. Why is his -- he 15 making the decisions? 16 I paid $7.50 for a copy of this proposed law, 17 which is now free. And didn't even get a map with it. 18 When I went back to the town office and complained, I 19 was given a map that does not even have town roads on 20 it. The proposed law has finally been put on the town 21 website. I think it is also minus a correct map. 22 As I said before, I am shocked and angered 23 that there has been no organized communication between 24 our Town Board or Planning Board and any officials in 25 the Lewis County Maple Ridge project. We could have PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 63 1 learned so much on both sides from them. 2 We are destroying our environment with acid 3 rain, mercury pollution, oil spills, and global warming. 4 To not do everything in our power to stop this is 5 cruelly abusive to our children and grandchildren. 6 And I would like to add that I went and spent 7 two hours on the internet the other night checking to 8 see what groups such as World Wildlife Fund, National 9 Audubon Society, and national animal habitat protection 10 organizations have to say. Every environmental 11 protection or wildlife advocacy group on the net I could 12 find, including the National Audubon Society, World 13 Wildlife Fund, and many others, strongly advocate wind 14 power. 15 MR. AUBERTINE: Thank you, Julie. 16 MS. GOSIER: Thank you. 17 MR. AUBERTINE: I want to remind everybody 18 that we're here just to tell us whether you're in favor 19 of this proposal or against the proposal. It is not 20 really a critique of what has been done in the past by 21 the Board. So just keep that in mind. 22 Kevin -- and I can't read the last name. S -- 23 MR. SCHAEFFER: Kevin Schaeffer, 24 S-C-H-A-E-F-F-E-R. 9989 Route 12E, Chaumont, New York. 25 First of all, I wonder how many of these PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 64 1 people that are putting these kind of restrictions in 2 for the sound have gone down to a windmill project with 3 a decibel meter and checked for themselves. 4 If you pull up different spots in a road 5 you'll see it's not as loud as people are telling you. 6 Number two: If you look at these restrictions, they're 7 double or more of any other town that has windmill 8 projects in New York State. I want to know why that is. 9 It's my opinion this piece of paper is a vote against 10 wind. If you don't want it, just tell us and vote no, 11 we don't want wind. Don't beat around the bush and say 12 the normal politics that they say, I was for it before I 13 was against it. Thank you very much for hearing me. 14 MR. AUBERTINE: Thank you. Bill Brown. 15 MR. BROWN: My name is Bill Brown, B-I-L-L, 16 B-R-O-W-N. I'm from down Route 125, Chaumont. 17 And I have 1100 acres -- I'm for windmills. I 18 have 1100 acres up there. The windmill company says 19 that I can have -- out of my 844 acres on the one farm I 20 can have 21 towers; the town Planning Board says I can 21 have two. I got a farm on the Old Town Springs Road up 22 here, 300 -- 298 acres. The windmill company says I can 23 have seven; the Town Board says I can have none because 24 of the setback, 400 -- 4500 feet of setback. 25 And then also the border lines: Two and a PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 65 1 half times the height of the windmill comes to a 2 thousand feet and -- some odd feet. So the time I get 3 this all in, both ways on the whole 1100 acres, I can 4 get two windmills. 5 And besides that, the PPM representative for 6 Maple Ridge was down at my place, and he looked at the 7 laws, in fact, he took them with him back to his -- with 8 the orders. And he looked at the first page and he 9 threw it down like that and said we can't work with the 10 Town of Lyme and walked out the door. You're not 11 getting windmills. 12 So I'm against your setback, I guess. Thank 13 you. 14 MR. AUBERTINE: Thank you, Bill. Jim Madden? 15 MR. MADDEN: I'm Jim Madden, M-A-D-D-E-N, with 16 BP Alternative Energy. I live in Richmond, Virginia. 17 I came to Chaumont last February to present to 18 the Planning Board and to seek guidance from the 19 Planning Board on a number of issues; first, you know, 20 whether the town was supportive of wind energy; second, 21 what areas of the town are appropriate for wind energy 22 development; and then third, what setbacks would be 23 required. 24 So here we are 11 months later and those 25 issues and other issues have been addressed in this PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 66 1 draft ordinance. 2 As I have stated a number of times before, BP 3 Alternative Energy is here to work with the town to 4 address concerns that the town may have on safety and to 5 minimize the negative impacts from any wind development 6 that we do. So we do encourage and support the town's 7 efforts on developing a wind ordinance. 8 And we would also like to say that many other 9 towns in the state of New York have developed wind 10 ordinances that encourage wind development while also 11 protecting the residents. 12 This ordinance is lengthy, and we have some -- 13 numerous concerns about it. And we are going to submit 14 details, written comments in the next week or so. But I 15 would like to make a few comments. 16 First, the Planning Board has put a lot of 17 effort into this ordinance, as Judy mentioned, over the 18 last year, trying to balance the concerns of many very 19 diverse group here in Lyme. And I tell you, that is not 20 an easy task. So I certainly appreciate the efforts 21 that they have put into this ordinance. 22 In trying to balance all of these needs and to 23 address all of the concerns from the different groups, 24 the town may have unintentionally given the impression 25 that it does not support wind energy. As a matter of PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 67 1 fact, if this ordinance is passed unchanged, Lyme may 2 have the most restrictive wind ordinance in the state of 3 New York. 4 [Applause] 5 MR. AUBERTINE: Now. 6 MR. MADDEN: From many conversations that I've 7 had with many residents in the Town of Lyme, and also 8 from reading the town's own wind survey, I do not 9 believe that that is what the citizens of Lyme want. 10 I can say that for BP the development and 11 siting of a wind energy facility here in the Town of 12 Lyme would not be possible under this ordinance. And as 13 Bill mentioned, you know, we do wind development just 14 like a lot of other companies, there are a lot of 15 requirements, there are a lot of needs that we need. We 16 need the support of the local communities. 17 So I can -- I cannot imagine that any wind 18 development company would be able to support a 19 development anywhere in the Town of Lyme with this 20 ordinance. 21 MR. AUBERTINE: One minute, Jim. 22 MR. MADDEN: Okay. So anyway, I think the 23 ordinance has some problems. If the Town of Lyme is -- 24 truly wants to support wind energy development, then I 25 strongly encourage the Town Board to carefully consider PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 68 1 this ordinance. Thank you. 2 MR. AUBERTINE: Thank you. Okay, please 3 remember to address your comments to the Board. 4 Beth White? 5 MS. WHITE: Hi. I'm Beth White, W-H-I-T-E. I 6 live at 30433 County Route 4, Cape Vincent, New York. I 7 too appreciate the effort that everybody got together 8 and put into the ordinance. It's a lengthy document, 9 and it's confusing in some areas. 10 The results of the wind farm survey that was 11 sent out last summer clearly indicated that Lyme 12 residents were in favor of wind farm construction in 13 Lyme. However, given the proposed law ordinance, 14 Number 8, the construction of the wind farm will be 15 impossible. This proposal is viewed as simply a way to 16 prevent the wind farm development, in spite of what the 17 majority of Lyme voters and taxpayers wanted. 18 For example, the noise restrictions imposed 19 are simply not in line at all with any of the other wind 20 farms in operation in New York State. A noise 21 restriction of 26 ambient plus 5 equals 31-decibel 22 restrictions, compared to 50 decibels in all the other 23 wind farms in New York State. 24 This type of restriction, as well as 25 additional moratoriums, can only be viewed as stall PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 69 1 tactics by the Lyme Town Board to stop the wind farm 2 construction, in spite of what the residents wanted. 3 The Lyme Town Board needs to align themselves with its 4 residents, not work against them. It's absolutely 5 ludicrous to suggest that the parameters outlined in 6 this ordinance are in response to the surveys that were 7 received. 8 The proposed law ignores the residents that 9 are in favor of wind. It will be completely impossible 10 for any wind farm to comply with these parameters. 11 I respectfully request that the ordinance be 12 revised to reduce the 4,500-foot setbacks, as well as 13 perhaps hiring an objective acoustic specialist to 14 accurately determine the appropriate noise standards. 15 MR. AUBERTINE: Thank you. Charlie Mount. 16 Five minutes, Charlie. 17 [Laughter] 18 MR. MOUNT: Charlie Mount, M-O-U-N-T. 19 9797 Route 12E, Three Mile Bay, New York. 20 I find the proposal excessive. I'd like to 21 ask the Town Board to please review it with great care. 22 It's written basically to preclude -- as it's written it 23 will preclude any wind farm development in the Town of 24 Lyme. Our law exceeds the setbacks for more than 21 25 other communities that currently have laws that are PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 70 1 established. 2 We were provided this sheet that does the 3 property setback, the resident setback, and the noise 4 level. Nobody has a noise standard different than 5 50 dBA or there isn't one at all. You have to be under 6 that. 7 Two and a half times. Everybody else is at 8 one and a half times. The resident setback property 9 line setback. The law that Mr. Metzger brought up about 10 the property analysis, we're talking about if it's going 11 to lower the property value of people in the area 12 because we have a wind tower. Well, I know if the law 13 goes through like it is it's going to preclude any 14 development. 15 And if it does, if our law, as much as is 16 exceeds, any property owner wouldn't potentially get a 17 windmill and receive revenue from it, their property is 18 being devalued. Every property owner that's not 19 included should go to the assessors first, file your 20 grievance, and go to Small Claims Court. 21 And I'm sure there will be a small claim -- 22 action suit against the Town of Lyme if this stays. 23 This just is taking money out of our pockets. You're 24 not allowed to do that. 25 I request that the Town Board do not do PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 71 1 anymore moratoriums. You do not have to have a 2 moratorium to not happen. I sat on the Board for ten 3 years. We could talk about it and table it, you can 4 move forward on one section or the other section. 5 You do not need a moratorium to stop on it. 6 It's time to stop having a moratorium, it's time to jump 7 in with both feet, talk about it at the meetings, bring 8 BP in, bring in people opposed to it, bring in every 9 group there is and do it as a Town Board. 10 So the Planning Board has done their job. I 11 disagree with what they came up with, I think they 12 misapplied the results, and I think the one area they 13 did it is when they took -- where are we now? Where we 14 did the setbacks on question eight and nine, they took 15 the 67 feet -- 67 people at 4500 feet and not near the 16 waterfront, that 479, and added them together. They did 17 it again the same with the village. 18 And I believe that's how -- when I sat at 19 their meeting that's exactly what they told me they did, 20 how they came up with this setback. And that's a 21 misapplication of information. It's not anything with 22 their effort. But I believe it's misapplied. 23 Some people were saying they don't want it 24 near the water, but most number said 1500 feet. The 25 least number in every case said 4500 feet. Please PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 72 1 address that as the Town Board. 2 Please take in the results -- we're having one 3 done in the neighboring town, they're bringing somebody 4 in from Vermont. Those results will be available on 5 what the noise levels will be. 6 We have people that are for it and against it, 7 and the people that are against it are being part of the 8 process. We shouldn't have that. Let's go outside. 9 The other thing is if we do this law we'll be 10 the only islet in here that doesn't have windmills; 11 they're going to be all around us. I drive through town 12 and I'm exceedingly proud to see that we have a sign 13 that says number one in the state in soccer. If we 14 don't put these through here, we're third Jefferson 15 County in taxes right now, we can put up we're number 16 one. Please do not do a moratorium. Do your job. 17 Thank you. 18 MR. AUBERTINE: Thank you. Ted Kelly. 19 MR. KELLY: I'll pass at this particular time. 20 MR. AUBERTINE: Okay, Ted. Jim Oxenford. 21 MR. OXENFORD: My name is Jim Oxenford, 22 O-X-E-N-F-O-R-D. I live at 25201 County Route 57 in 23 Three Mile Bay. 24 Right from the start I felt that windmill 25 siting has been backwards. Why put a noisemaker in a PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 73 1 quiet setting? Why put a tall structure in low 2 countries? Windmills in my mind should be placed in 3 areas already affected by human activity. Put 4 industrial power generators in industrial parks; put 5 them close to cities where ambient noise and higher -- 6 where ambient noise is higher and people wouldn't notice 7 the additional sound or tall structures. Put them along 8 the interstate corridors, let travelers enjoy them. 9 Why do they want them here? Because they 10 think we are cheap and easy. The whole relationship 11 between the towns and power companies seems familiar to 12 me. The towns are like virgins who are thinking about 13 giving up their virginity for money. There is a name 14 for that. The thing is, our towns haven't had any 15 experience with this. Someone asks us, we say yes. 16 Everything I have heard and read about so far 17 indicates that without strong regulations most residents 18 in these towns, like the virgins, are going to get 19 screwed for very little gain for a very long time. It's 20 a $10 quickie that will last 20 years. 21 A savings in taxes of $300,000 was mentioned 22 in today's paper. If there were 300 taxpayers in Lyme 23 they'd each receive a thousand dollars a year. 600 24 taxpayers, they'd save 500. 1200 taxpayers would save 25 $250. That's about what I'm spending in gasoline for a PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 74 1 month. Not much compensation for what would be taken 2 away from us. 3 I strongly support the zoning proposal as it 4 is that's been put forward by this committee. Double 5 setbacks equals double protection for people who are 6 neighbors of windmills that don't want them. The more 7 we can limit this intrusion into our personal space, the 8 less deflowered I will feel. 9 MR. AUBERTINE: Thank you, Jim. Bert Bowers. 10 MR. BOWERS: I'm Bert Bowers, B-O-W-E-R-S. I 11 live on Academy Street, 11891 Academy Street, just 12 across from Lyme Central School. 13 I'm generally in favor of the proposed 14 regulations for windmills. And the one comment I have, 15 I've done considerable work in my life on noise 16 abatement in the design of ships, and I can tell you 17 that one of the things when we looked at other towns' 18 regulations and we saw that they were agreeing to 19 50 decibels, 50 decibels is a pretty aggressive sound 20 level. 21 And I worked for years to get sound levels 22 down on ships because we had -- as ship owners we had a 23 lot of suits from people for damage to their hearing and 24 damage to their general health because of the noise 25 levels on board ships where people worked. And to get PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 75 1 down to 50 decibels was a struggle. 2 And in the quarters on these ships that's sort 3 of a typical sound level these days, but people aren't 4 there 24/7, they work for a short time and then they go 5 off for a short time. So they're not subjected to that 6 sound level for their entire life, but only for the time 7 that they're working. 8 And I think people who think that they can 9 live with that sound level should maybe expose 10 themselves to it for a while and see if they are able to 11 sleep and see if they're able to live. 12 I think it's not a -- you know, the sound 13 level criteria that are in this proposal are reasonable 14 and they've been developed to protect the citizens of 15 this town, and I think they should be considered 16 reasonable. Thank you. 17 MR. AUBERTINE: Thank you, Bert. 18 Frank Congel? 19 MR. CONGEL: I'm Frank Congel, C-O-N-G-E-L. 20 22726 County Route 57, Point Peninsula. 21 And I wanted to commend the Board in the 22 manner in which it's approaching the problem, because it 23 is, as we can see, extremely difficult and very 24 divisive. It has profound effects on all of us, and I 25 guess it depends a lot on what you do here and how long PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 76 1 you've been here and so on. 2 But the real issue, as I see it, is that we 3 really are changing the character of this area from what 4 it has been for a long time, namely recreationally 5 oriented, to one that really does invite an industry in 6 its midst. And if you do that, you bring up all of 7 these issues. 8 The fairest manner in which I think it's to be 9 handled is the manner in which you're doing it. You had 10 the survey. People, I know, have disagreed with some 11 aspects of it, but there was a rather detailed 12 substantial analysis done of the survey, and it was 13 presented to the public. And from what I see the 14 proposed law is a very close replication of the wishes 15 that are in the survey. 16 So I didn't remember hearing a lot of 17 questions that were raised when the survey results were 18 analyzed in a very comprehensive way. Now that the law 19 reflects that, I hear implications from the law that I 20 guess some people find unpleasant. But I wanted to add 21 my voice that I believe it really is the most 22 representative democracy that we could hope for, and I'm 23 proud to be a resident here. Thank you. 24 MR. AUBERTINE: Thank you. Scott Discount? 25 MR. DISCOUNT: Scott Discount, PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 77 1 D-I-S-C-O-U-N-T. 25255 Selter Road. 2 We're probably the newest members of the Lyme 3 community, even though we've been coming up here for 4 years. I have kids in Henderson and in Sackets. And 5 we've been looking for property for years up here. 6 So we found a place in July. And I'm a very 7 private man, but I'm going to tell some numbers because 8 I don't think people understand the money that's up here 9 now and how much money is being put into this town. 10 We paid $300,000 plus for a 5-acre parcel on 11 Point Peninsula. We're putting in over a million 12 dollars into the home. That's a lot of money to 13 stimulate this economy up here. 14 We would not have done that if we had known 15 about wind farms. We would not be putting in this 16 money, and frankly, we're very happy with the setbacks 17 here, and we will continue with the house. If the 18 setbacks were different, we wouldn't have built, and we 19 would have sold the property. 20 As far as economic stimulus, I think you have 21 tourism on your side. We did not move here to be an 22 industrial complex; we came up here for the absolute 23 beauty. I love to watch the hawks hunting in my fields 24 and behind my house. That goes away with wind farms. 25 I think you've done a good job, I think we PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 78 1 should wait for more moratorium time so we see what the 2 surrounding areas do and how they perform. These guys 3 are going to be making money no matter what if they come 4 in here. They're going to be around if they have an 5 economic reason to be here. I think that you've done a 6 good job, I think you should increase the setbacks, and 7 we should have a longer moratorium. 8 MR. AUBERTINE: Thank you. 9 Okay. That's everybody that signed up. I'd 10 like to take a five-minute break, please, and then if 11 there's anybody that wants to speak we'll start a second 12 round. Make sure you sign in; we'll sign in again for 13 the second round. 14 (A brief recess was taken from 2:55 PM until 15 3:05 PM.) 16 MR. AUBERTINE: Call round two to order, 17 please. Please be quiet. Remember the same ground 18 rules: No cross-conversations; direct your comments to 19 the Board. And I don't know what happened to the 20 sign-in sheet. There it is. 21 All right. Lois Lang? 22 MS. LANG: Yes. I'm Lois Lang. I live on 23 12E. And I want to say there is very little noise from 24 these windmills. And I'll tell you why: My daughter 25 and I went down and we stood 50 feet from the windmills PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 79 1 and there was hardly any noise. That's one thing. 2 Another thing, I'm against such a restrictive 3 area for our windmills. We got lots of land: Point 4 Peninsula, all those -- all that whole area. There's a 5 lot of land there that's not being utilized for 6 anything. And it's so doggone restrictive the way 7 they've got it there in the white, that's all that can 8 be used. 9 And another thing is the setback. It's way 10 too -- way too restrictive. It should be -- at least 11 the other towns -- like the other towns that have the 12 regular come out. So that's my comment. Okay? 13 MR. AUBERTINE: Thank you, Lois. Don Metzger 14 is next. Pete, you didn't sign in, but I'll remember 15 you. 16 MR. METZGER: When you cut me off there, 17 Mr. Chairman, I was talking about Page 10, Number F, 18 property value analysis. And I don't know why we even 19 need that in there; I'm a little confused about it. I 20 would agree with Charlie Mount on that. I think it's 21 probably an unnecessary -- we have the procedure in 22 effect now, but maybe there's something in there that I 23 don't understand. So I'll leave it up to your good 24 graces as to whether to leave it in or not. But right 25 now it seems like it's a superfluous piece of PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 80 1 information there. 2 Going on, Page 12 E, Page 12 E like Edward, 3 E -- 12 if you got it on the internet. 4 MR. AUBERTINE: Don, can I interrupt just one 5 second? We've got a red Honda, license plate CUV4680, 6 that's blocking someone that would like to leave. 7 All right, thank you, Don. 8 MR. METZGER: 12E where it talks about -- it's 9 the second line down in number E -- in letter E, where 10 you talk about or a camouflage scheme. A camouflage 11 scheme. I have to admit, I have no idea what you mean 12 by a camouflage scheme. 13 I do know about the non-reflective net finish 14 color, because that's what's used on most wind turbines 15 around the country, including right there at Tug Hill. 16 But this camouflage scheme -- I'm not asking 17 for an explanation right now, but maybe after the forum 18 if somebody knows what that is they could tell me. 19 At Page Number 18, at the very top, 18 C, the 20 very top -- the first sentence, I think you need to 21 check your punctuation there. You need either -- after 22 the word fund I think you need a period or a colon so it 23 reads right. It's a little -- I know what your intent 24 is, the intent is good, but if -- it just reads a 25 little -- with difficulty, I think, without it. You PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 81 1 might want to check the punctuation right after the 2 decommission of fund or bond, it says or fund the 3 applicant. I don't think any of us want to be funding 4 the applicant. Page 18 C, 18 C like Charlie. 5 MR. AUBERTINE: Quiet, please. 6 MR. METZGER: And Page 24 N, N like Nick. 7 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Are all of the 8 things -- 9 MR. AUBERTINE: I'll put you down on the list, 10 Ted, if you want to speak. 11 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: It's just a matter that 12 there seems to be a discrepancy in terms -- 13 MR. GEBO: Depends on where you downloaded it 14 from. 15 MR. AUBERTINE: You're talking about -- yes, 16 they are different -- I'm sorry. Some are different. 17 MR. METZGER: That's 24 N like Nick. You may 18 want to check that. I think you meant to use the word 19 vertical instead of horizontal, a horizontal axis wind 20 turbine. Maybe there is such an animal, I'm not an 21 expert on wind terminals -- turbines, but I think you 22 mean to use the word vertical instead of horizontal 23 axis. 24 And on Page 25 E, E like Edward, 25 E like 25 Edward, right down at the very bottom of the page there, PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 82 1 the term opt out of the tax-exempted provisions of the 2 real property tax law. I'm not asking for an answer, 3 but maybe after the forum somebody can explain to me 4 what that means. Does that mean that you -- that you 5 can opt out of the PILOT agreement before the 15-year 6 expiration date? I don't know. I'm a little confused 7 on that. 8 On that line, I would highly suggest that the 9 Board seriously consider hiring somebody like Kevin 10 McAuliffe, the attorney in Syracuse, to help with the 11 negotiating of the PILOT -- for the PILOT agreement. 12 And Mr. Bert Bowers spoke here earlier about 13 the 50 decibel level. As someone who has spent the last 14 44 years working on ships and dealing in high sound 15 levels, I know very well what 50 decibels is like, and 16 when you sleep and work and eat with 50 decibels or 17 more, even less than 50 decibels, it's a lot. It's one 18 of the worst parts about working on ships, and it's one 19 of the main reasons I live here in the lovely Town of 20 Lyme, because I love the quiet because it's my respite 21 from the noise and the hectic noises of machines. 22 Page 5 H. Page 5 H. 23 MR. AUBERTINE: You have one minute, 24 Mr. Metzger. 25 MR. METZGER: Okay, I'll skip that then. And PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 83 1 I will say that I would recommend that there be 2 something in there, in the zoning law, I don't know how 3 to word it, but something for some sort of a contingency 4 plan. I applaud your effort to have in there your 5 dispute resolution committee, but I was just up skiing 6 two days ago in the Tug Hill Wind Farm area, and I saw 7 an environmental fellow testing one of the wells up 8 there. They had a spill, one of the wells was 9 contaminated. 10 I mean, these things happen, I'm not -- I 11 don't have anything against the wind farm people up 12 there, but -- and they cleaned it up. Some of it got in 13 the well; one of the wells was contaminated. They're 14 checking to see that other wells aren't contaminated. 15 It was chronicled here in the paper that I happened to 16 buy one. I happen to get gas up at the local station. 17 DEC says the wind farm spilled the oil. Those things 18 happen. But I think we need to have some sort of a 19 contingency plan for when stuff happens. And in 20 addition to this dispute resolution thing that you have 21 in the zoning. 22 I think that probably terminates my time, 23 doesn't it, Mr. Chairman? 24 MR. AUBERTINE: Yes, it does. 25 MR. METZGER: Thanks very much, sir. PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 84 1 MR. AUBERTINE: If you have more we can come 2 back after everybody else. 3 MR. METZGER: Thank you. 4 MR. AUBERTINE: Darwin Paro. 5 MR. PARO: Okay. It was brought up to the 6 Board by the taxpayer here concerning fires. And as a 7 fireman I will not only tell you Board, but I will tell 8 everybody in the community, if one of them towers goes 9 off, there's no way in hell you're going to put it out. 10 It's going to burn. There's no ladder high enough, 11 there's no fireman that's going to be crazy enough to 12 crawl up inside that tower. It's only common sense. 13 It's going to burn. And there's nothing wrong with 14 that. 15 Number two: Noise level. I hear so much 16 about that. I've lived here 24 years. This morning I 17 walked out my back door. What noise level did I hear? 18 Ice augers running way over the other side of 19 Salubrious. And I can hear them on County Route 8. I 20 can hear chainsaws running from neighbors up the road 21 cutting wood. I hear noise level from the snowplows 22 going up and down my roads. Buses, tractor trailers. 23 There are a hell of a lot more noise coming from them 24 than what's going to come from the wind towers. 25 So think about it. Are we jumping at straws? PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 85 1 I think we need to think about it. We have snowmobiles, 2 we have ATVs, we have jet skis out there running. 3 Nobody's complaining. And I don't think these wind 4 towers are going to be that noisy. I've been up there 5 at Tug Hill, and I agree with Mrs. Lang that spoke, you 6 can stand right beside them, you can talk. It's not 7 deafening. You don't believe me, go on up there. 8 MR. AUBERTINE: Thank you. 9 MR. PARO: Thank you. 10 MR. AUBERTINE: Pete Rogers, you wanted to 11 speak? 12 MR. ROGERS: Pete Rogers, 26884 Three Mile 13 Point Road, Chaumont, New York. 14 First of all, I would like to commend the 15 Planning Board on the excellent job that they did on 16 this draft. As in any kind of a draft there's always 17 changes that can be made, improvements or adjustments to 18 it, and I'm sure that they will happen over time. 19 I've sat here and listened to the comments 20 today, and the comment has been brought up about the 21 survey. And it was my understanding that survey was not 22 a vote, it was a survey. And it was slightly flawed in 23 the fact that they were asking in the survey for input 24 from us on things that we maybe at that time really 25 didn't have any real knowledge of as far as what PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 86 1 windmills were really all about. 2 So as far as taking that and making that as a 3 referendum of whether or not that town wants windmills 4 or not, I don't think that was an appropriate statement 5 to base on that survey. 6 I'm a little disturbed also that I heard a 7 comment about seasonal versus a full-time residences. 8 My family settled this part of the community several 9 generations ago, and I certainly don't put myself up any 10 higher on a pedestal than somebody that came in here 11 last week. 12 The last I knew this town still resides in 13 Jefferson County, New York State, in the United States 14 of America. There's nothing here that says just because 15 you don't live here year-round you don't have an 16 interest and a fighting interest in the things that go 17 on in our community. And the fact that we happen to be 18 here in the winter, like some of us are, I'm not so sure 19 who's maybe a little brighter that goes into the sun 20 once in a while than stay up here in this. But I don't 21 think that we should negate just because somebody 22 doesn't live here year-round that they don't have a say 23 in what's going on here. 24 I'm a little also disturbed Mr. Madden stood 25 up here. My understanding this was a public hearing on PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 87 1 the zoning law or on the proposed zoning law. I think 2 there's a little bit of a conflict in the British 3 Petroleum representative standing up here and trying to 4 lecture to the crowd. 5 While I'm on British Petroleum, I read the 6 news lately here what happened last year in the Alaskan 7 Pipeline; due to alleged poor maintenance on the 8 pipeline they had a spill up there. Also, there was a 9 scandal here not too long ago with some representative, 10 I don't know if it was British Petroleum proper, but a 11 couple executives tried to corner the propane market in 12 the United States last year. I believe there's some 13 litigation going on in that order right now. 14 So to put all your eggs in the basket of 15 trusting an oil company, British Petroleum or any oil 16 company, I think you better take a step back and take a 17 deep breath. 18 I do kind of resent Mr. Madden. I guess my 19 question would be how many windmills does he have within 20 a half mile of his home. 21 As far as a comment that was made here, 22 assessments. If you couldn't get a windmill you should 23 be able to go in and, you know, have the property 24 lowered. Well, if that's the case I want to have an 25 airport in my front yard, and if the zoning prevents me PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 88 1 from doing it, then I guess I should have a lowering of 2 my assessment also, even though my front yard is 3 135 feet across. 4 All testing that should be done here should be 5 independent, funded by the oil companies or whoever is 6 an advocate here. Nobody should be doing this with -- 7 anybody believes in integrity of somebody reporting on 8 their self, I kind of -- that would raise some issues in 9 my mind on how factual are we really being here. 10 And now I've also heard about these lowering 11 the taxes versus our quality of life. If anybody thinks 12 that bringing $300,000 into this community is going to 13 lower the taxes, get ready for Santa next 24th of 14 December. It ain't going to happen. 15 MR. AUBERTINE: One minute, Pete. 16 MR. ROGERS: And my one encouragement would be 17 to the Town Board that we absolutely, without fail, no 18 PILOTs. Why should anybody get a PILOT program? When I 19 built my house I started paying taxes that first year. 20 Why should these companies come from somewhere else on 21 our subsidized federal and state tax dollars, let them 22 spoil our landscape and our yard and give them a PILOT 23 program on top of it? There should be no PILOTs 24 whatsoever. If they come in here, they pay the full 25 shot, just like you do and everybody else does that owns PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 89 1 property in this town. 2 And I've also heard about the sound pollution 3 that's risen here. 4 MR. AUBERTINE: Pete, I'm going to have to 5 shut you off. Just hold your thought there. 6 Is there anyone else that would like to speak? 7 Yes, sir? 8 MR. KINGSLEY: My name is Kingsley out in 9 Point Peninsula, 8384 State Park Road. 10 MR. AUBERTINE: Spell your name, please. 11 MR. KINGSLEY: Charles Kingsley, 12 K-I-N-G-S-L-E-Y. I want to thank the Board and Mark 13 Gebo there for helping me out with my ideas here of how 14 the Board has been biased. It's obvious that the people 15 that are in favor of windmills better start writing 16 letters for next week's meeting. It's a crying shame 17 take we spent the better part of 45 minutes going over 18 seven or eight letters. And it's obvious I didn't know 19 about that, but if I did I think I would have been 20 sending in a lot more letters. 21 I've been very critical of that survey. And 22 it all started out I think from the Lyme School's 23 presentation that the Board put together, and Dr. Carr 24 did a very good job of putting the presentation 25 together. But where a lot of this setback comes from, PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 90 1 the 4500 feet, I think it's an unrealistic sound 2 demonstration that Dr. Carr did in an auditorium that 3 you could hear a pin drop in. 4 Now, I think he could have done that same 5 demonstration with one slide. And that one slide could 6 have been a very simple picture of a windmill and what 7 the decibel level would be at the base of it and then 8 project out 500, a thousand, 1500 feet, and let the 9 community decide what the setback should be. 10 I'm critical of Dr. Carr's analysis of ice 11 coming off of a windmill, losing of a blade. Two 12 failures don't register in my book, because number one, 13 you got to have ice; number two, you got to have a car 14 or whatever going by. Those aren't realistic. But it 15 scares everybody that, oh, my God, these things are 16 going to be -- and the pictures of a windmill falling 17 over. What is the likelihood of that happening? 18 But the one point, this survey here, I find it 19 embarrassing that on question number nine we had to have 20 this clarifier in there: In other words, for the next 21 20 years at any time, seven days a week, 52 -- blah, 22 blah, blah. We don't need that in there. Let the 23 community decide that. 24 The fella that was out there in Point 25 Peninsula, I'm out there in Point Peninsula, and I would PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 91 1 love to have a 1,000 -- 10,000-watt generator to 2 supplement my electrical bill. But if I go through 3 these rules and regulations, number one, it has to be 4 non-reflective paint. Non-reflective paint to me is a 5 flat type of paint. And how many of our boats are 6 painted on the bottom with a flat paint? What little I 7 know about aerodynamics, you don't want to have a flat 8 paint on a blade of a windmill. 9 Mr. Metzger, he mentioned about the 10 camouflaging. Does it have to be painted green? The 11 other thing is I have to go and generate a computer 12 photo of where this windmill is going to go and what the 13 windmill is going to look in an established location 14 where it's going to be. And then go out and hire a 15 consultant to have the decibels -- ambient decibels 16 taken? The whole point being, it's going to come down 17 to, like this gentleman over here says, nobody in the 18 community is going to have a windmill. Absolutely not. 19 MR. AUBERTINE: One minute, Mr. Kingsley. One 20 minute. 21 MR. KINGSLEY: Oh, I got a lot of time. 22 [Laughter] 23 MR. KINGSLEY: Too bad Channel 7 left already. 24 [Laughter] 25 MR. KINGSLEY: The Planning Board, I'm PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 92 1 frustrated that they wouldn't release a preliminary 2 copy, as well as the Board, prior to this meeting here. 3 It was just, what, a couple weeks ago or a week and a 4 half ago that we started releasing this? The community 5 should have had access to this thing six months ago. So 6 that we could have gone to the Planning Board and talked 7 intelligently with some of those people who come out -- 8 instead of sitting here and arguing about what should be 9 in that -- my minute's up. 10 MR. AUBERTINE: Thank you very much. And 11 again, I apologize for those letters. And I'm sure I'm 12 going to hear the opinions of the Town Board about it 13 afterwards. So my gut feeling tells me you better come 14 on the 12th, because there may not be any letters 15 read, I don't know. But we will take them. And Mark 16 and I spoke earlier, we will receive written comments 17 until January 31st. Okay? 18 Anyone else that would like to speak? 19 MR. PARO: I would just like to thank the 20 Board -- 21 MR. AUBERTINE: Stand up again, do it 22 formally. 23 MR. PARO: Okay. All right, I'll be formal. 24 Just like to thank all you people for what you have done 25 for us here in the Town of Lyme. And as a taxpayer I'm PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 93 1 just asking you to look into it, use common sense, deal 2 with the facts, and do what's right. 3 And again, I thank you all for the time that 4 you have spent, and we greatly appreciate it. Thank 5 you. 6 [Applause] 7 MR. AUBERTINE: Thank you. Charlie. 8 MR. MOUNT: Charlie Mount, Three Mile Bay, 9 9797 New York State Route 12E. 10 After the meeting on the 12th, the public 11 hearing, if you pass the law, what recourse do we have? 12 You'll take comment to that time; can we request a 13 referendum, is that available to us, that option, or 14 not? 15 MR. GEBO: There's a couple of steps that 16 still need to be taken with this. It has to go to 17 County Planning Board. The idea here is to try to get 18 it to County Planning Board the end of January. Town 19 Board can't act on it until after the county does, so 20 it's going to be February before this Board is in a 21 position to say yea or nay. So that's the first thing 22 from a timing point of view. 23 The town law allows referendum -- well, town 24 law, municipal home rule law allows a referendum on 25 certain types of issues, but typically land use laws are PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 94 1 not one of them. So there's no real authorization under 2 the town law for there to be a public referendum on the 3 law. 4 Further, there's been opinions from the 5 Comptroller's Office and State Attorney General's Office 6 that if you are -- that if a referendum is not 7 authorized by law you can't just have one because it's 8 an improper expenditure of public funds. 9 So the answer I guess based on that is that it 10 will not be going to referendum. 11 MR. AUBERTINE: Any other comments? 12 Mr. Metzger, are you sure you're done? 13 MR. METZGER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 14 MR. AUBERTINE: All right. Any other 15 comments? Yes. 16 MS. BRASS: I'm Leah Brass, B-R-A-S-S, and I 17 live on Three Mile Point North. And I want to say thank 18 you to the Board for the setback regulations. We moved 19 down here five years ago, put a retirement home, and 20 that's why we moved down here, for the pleasantness and 21 the quietness of the area. And I know our taxes have 22 gone up every year; in fact, we just were reassessed and 23 we didn't even know we had been reassessed, and we do 24 pay a large amount living on the water. 25 And I want to say that if we were to resell PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 95 1 our house and move away, we would not get the value that 2 our house is valued at right now with wind power. It 3 just wouldn't happen. People would not want to move 4 into this area and look at windmills. 5 And that's all I have to say. Thank you. 6 MR. AUBERTINE: Thank you. Anyone else? 7 Ethel? 8 MS. DAY: Ethel Day, Chaumont, River Road. 9 I just want to say do you -- Board, do you get 10 the idea now that we do want windmills; we don't want 11 that setback you're talking about, we want it redone so 12 we can get windmills in here? Because if you saw in the 13 paper, we're not going to get 8.1 million, but there's 14 money going to go to our school, it will help where we 15 need it in the community the way it did in here. And 16 this was in last Sunday's paper. So, okay? 17 MR. AUBERTINE: Anyone else? 18 MR. BYRNE: My name is John Byrne. 19 I want to thank the Chairman of the Board for 20 making sure that my phone works now. 21 [Laughter] 22 MR. BYRNE: In addition to thanking the Board 23 for doing this study and taking the time to come up with 24 some, I guess you can say, plan of attack on how to 25 resolve the problem, because I see there's a lot of PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 96 1 views on both sides, just like in the neighboring towns. 2 And somehow we have to all come to some type of 3 agreement and live together. And the only way that 4 that's going to happen is if everyone compromises. So I 5 just want to say thanks. 6 MR. AUBERTINE: Thank you. Anyone else? 7 Going once, going twice. 8 Okay. I just want to mention that the next 9 hearing will be Saturday, January 12th, 2008, and I 10 believe that's at 1 PM again here. Like we said, we 11 will receive written comments until January 31st. 12 I want to thank you all for coming again. 13 Thank you for your input. This is adjourned. 14 (The public hearing was adjourned at 3:33 PM.) 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775 97 1 C E R T I F I C A T I O N 2 3 4 I, SALLYANNE B. MAIORANO, Registered Merit 5 Reporter, Certified Realtime Reporter, Certified CART 6 Provider, Certified Shorthand Reporter, and Notary Public in 7 and for the State of New York, DO HEREBY CERTIFY that I 8 attended the foregoing proceedings, took stenographic notes 9 of the same, that the foregoing, consisting of 95 pages, is a 10 true and correct copy of same and the whole thereof. 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 _________________________________________ 20 SALLYANNE B. MAIORANO, RMR, CRR, CCP, CSR 21 22 23 Dated: January 11, 2008 24 25 PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 315-436-7775